Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: TheBoy on 01 August 2011, 15:39:30
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Blows out the RCD (which covers all 3 ring mains :().
Seems to be when well into a cycle, either still when washing, or into drying cycle.
A cold 'prewash' cycle (whatever that is -its a kitchen appliance, me no understandie) works fine.
Is this the normal symptom for a failing heater element?
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Clearly, the element heats up, as it does get hot in the machine before the trip blows
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is she getting enough tea? ;D ;D :-X :-X :-X :-X
*runs & hides :D ;D
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Is this the normal symptom for a failing heater element?
Certainly has to be high on the list. :y
Pull the connectors off the element and check leakage with a megger or failing that a normal ohmmeter.
Check the wiring between the door and main unit as it bends round the door hinge too. All the flexing often causes the wires to chafe.
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Might I suggest fairy liquid and marigolds as demonstrated by a certain other Admin! [smiley=bath.gif]
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/littlejimmym/misc%20car/IMG_0406s.jpg)
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Just got to work out how to get the sides off. 6 screws, still no further forward ;D
Where is the element, in the sump?
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Might I suggest fairy liquid and marigolds as demonstrated by a certain other Admin! [smiley=bath.gif]
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/littlejimmym/misc%20car/IMG_0406s.jpg)
Ooooh, isn't he sexy in his rubber gloves.
"Bend Over, laddie!"
;D
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I should add, when its hot and blown the trip, it trips out IMMEDIATELY I turn it back on at the wall.
Once cooled, it appears to be OK again on cold wash, and get 1:30 into a 2:30 wash...
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Just got to work out how to get the sides off. 6 screws, still no further forward ;D
Where is the element, in the sump?
Yep. Should be able to just tip it onto its' front / back / side to get to the element wiring.
A visual check of the element might tell you all you need to know.
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mine does the same! i gave up and just use my delicate handies
will get around to throwing it out and replacing it one day.
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Anyone got a FDW70 service manual?
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Anyone got a FDW70 service manual?
Is this any good TB ? http://www.manualsmania.com/model.php?model=623a54de44da9349fc29131fa64caa0f9492ce
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Might I suggest fairy liquid and marigolds as demonstrated by a certain other Admin! [smiley=bath.gif]
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/littlejimmym/misc%20car/IMG_0406s.jpg)
Washing up is a woman's job. Always has been.....always will be. :)
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Anyone got a FDW70 service manual?
Is this any good TB ? http://www.manualsmania.com/model.php?model=623a54de44da9349fc29131fa64caa0f9492ce
Thats a user guide, freely available from Indeshit directly. Its the service/repair manual I'm after, as I reckon there is a pesky hidden screw ;D
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Other thing you can go is disconnect the heater and see if the cycle completes. (and then plumb it into the hot water, give Mrs. TB a tea cloth and relax and have a beer in the satisfaction of a successful "repair" and a reduced leccy bill.) :y
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Anyone got a FDW70 service manual?
Is this any good TB ? http://www.manualsmania.com/model.php?model=623a54de44da9349fc29131fa64caa0f9492ce
Thats a user guide, freely available from Indeshit directly. Its the service/repair manual I'm after, as I reckon there is a pesky hidden screw ;D
Aw tilt,time for sammy then :D
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Right, without doing anything other than taking the top off, and one of the sides half off, it completes a 'Fast Wash 40C' whatever that means.
Just gonna chuck some plates in to reduce the washing mountain a tad before she gets home...
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Might I suggest fairy liquid and marigolds as demonstrated by a certain other Admin! [smiley=bath.gif]
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/littlejimmym/misc%20car/IMG_0406s.jpg)
Washing up is a woman's job. Always has been.....always will be. :)
Please see above pic for demonstration! :y
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Can't remember how I got into mine ::)
Let me know what other parts you want when you get a chance and I'll pull them out for you ;) Fairly sure I've still got a brand new element in the shed for a HP dishwasher ;)
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is yours one of these built in ones? i fancy taking mine apart now lol
but i have no idea how to get it out, its got the cupboard door on front looks all built in?
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Might I suggest fairy liquid and marigolds as demonstrated by a certain other Admin! [smiley=bath.gif]
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/littlejimmym/misc%20car/IMG_0406s.jpg)
Washing up is a woman's job. Always has been.....always will be. :)
Please see above pic for demonstration! :y
It's not the natural order of things for a man to do a woman's work......Mrs Jimbob. :) :P :P
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Right, without doing anything other than taking the top off, and one of the sides half off, it completes a 'Fast Wash 40C' whatever that means.
Just gonna chuck some plates in to reduce the washing mountain a tad before she gets home...
Is it plumbed into the hot water already??
Coz if not, i dont understand why it can heat the water to 40C and not blow the trip, but it carnt heat it to 65?
I would expect a knackered heater to blow the trip as soon as it turned on.....where as if it is using the hot water, it doesnt need to turn the heater on, as the incoming water temp would be above 40C
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It now bangs the trip as soon as it goes on at the mains. You hear what sounds like a pump start.
Currently popping the trip with wash pump unplugged. It still pops trip with sump pump unplugged and heater element (a long tube that feeds the upper wash arm?) unplugged.
Need to let the UPS recharge before trying again, else the server will go down next time. Media Center already has the hump...
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[split] [link=http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1312223454/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]
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Pruned to keep on topic, not a debate about cars! Do that in car chat ;)
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lol did get a little off topic, i tend to do that!
back to dishwashers, did your empty out before blowing the fuses? mine seems to have left water in so maybe the pump not heater element.
have you looked what currys have in stock in a few stores?
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Often there'll be a mains filter on the feed from the mains. Maybe that's gone leaky? Could be it started just when it had got warm, or when it had the heater load on it, now it's all the time.
You can normally bypass them easily enough for a test.
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Time is against me, I'll have to leave it in bits for a few days...
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It now bangs the trip as soon as it goes on at the mains. You hear what sounds like a pump start.
Currently popping the trip with wash pump unplugged. It still pops trip with sump pump unplugged and heater element (a long tube that feeds the upper wash arm?) unplugged.
Need to let the UPS recharge before trying again, else the server will go down next time. Media Center already has the hump...
Time for a new one, me thinks :-/
I can get my head round most things as to how they work.....dishwashers are a complete mystery to me.....with their complicated pipework....i spent days trying to figure what was wrong with my old bosch machine......in the end i decided it was less stressfull, just to buy a new machine :y
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Can't remember how I got into mine ::)
Let me know what other parts you want when you get a chance and I'll pull them out for you ;) Fairly sure I've still got a brand new element in the shed for a HP dishwasher ;)
Gas axe,sthilsaw,hammer,grinder,in front of a train or bought a new one ;D ;D :y
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Time is against me, I'll have to leave it in bits for a few days...
Oh dear D.I.V.O.R.C.E. ;D ;D
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Pushed it back under worktop (minus top/sides/other bits), but something collapsed at the back (guessing the sides give it rigidity).
Job for next week now.
Having proved what it isn't, assuming only one fault, I reckon it narrows it down to wiring or controller.
That said, the join between the top and bottom halves of the main area is furry, so guessing thats weeping a little as well. Probably best to just buy a new one, and get upset with call centres about delivery :(
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Well I hate it when that happens.
It all works. I've down nothing, except not use it for a week, and put it back together (as going around with a meter didn't help).
I just know its gonna bite me...
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Sounds like a spurious leak which gets water onto contacts sometimes and not others. How are all the seals?
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Sounds like a spurious leak which gets water onto contacts sometimes and not others. How are all the seals?
No signs of leaks, maybe a tiny weep from the join in the 2 halves of the main container. Its new enough to have a tray to catch any leaks, which is bone dry
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Amazing, ours packed up a week ago (it was only 23 years old as well) they just don't make them to last anymore :(
Probably something simple, but decided to invest in a new one.
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Well I hate it when that happens.
It all works. I've down nothing, except not use it for a week, and put it back together (as going around with a meter didn't help).
I just know its gonna bite me...
our give us a surprise welcome when we were back from vacation.. it didnt work for two days and my wife was so upset.. until I tought well lets plug it off..
after it start to work for no apparent reason :-?
too much electronics imo >:(
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Amazing, ours packed up a week ago (it was only 23 years old as well) they just don't make them to last anymore :(
Probably something simple, but decided to invest in a new one.
Was Mrs AA only 23? :-/
Got yourself a newer model now then AA ;) ;D
Seriously tho.....bet your new machine doesnt last 23 years......well unless your like my parents....only use it for doing the dishes after sunday lunch :o
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Washing up is a woman's job. Always has been.....always will be.
:o..... :(....... >:(....... :'(
::) If it suddenly came down to men to do the washing-up: it`d be paper plates and plastic cutlery for all, within the first day! :P
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.....
::) If it suddenly came down to men to do the washing-up: it`d be paper plates and plastic cutlery for all, within the first day! :P
...... and the problem is? ::) ::) ::)
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.....
::) If it suddenly came down to men to do the washing-up: it`d be paper plates and plastic cutlery for all, within the first day! :P
...... and the problem is? ::) ::) ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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this model does suffer from burnt wires on the heater box, also the mains filter is a plastic case mains filter that also is a common problem. on this machine you can get liner seals splitting but its not common, main issue with that it fills the steel base plate where the wash pump sits and shorts that out,
sorry tb only just seen your post or would have said earlier.
pm me if need on what you have looked at i used to work on this model.
:y :y
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this model does suffer from burnt wires on the heater box, also the mains filter is a plastic case mains filter that also is a common problem. on this machine you can get liner seals splitting but its not common, main issue with that it fills the steel base plate where the wash pump sits and shorts that out,
sorry tb only just seen your post or would have said earlier.
pm me if need on what you have looked at i used to work on this model.
:y :y
Part of the problem is I've had a holiday between it not working well, and now. And drank far too much Keo ::). So its a bit vague in my mind what was unplugged when I still got it popping the RCD.
Do you happen to have a service manual?
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Well I hate it when that happens.
It all works. I've down nothing, except not use it for a week, and put it back together (as going around with a meter didn't help).
I just know its gonna bite me...
'dangle berries', 'dangle berries' and double 'dangle berries'.
Sorry to disturb the dust on this one, but guess what. 2 rather weeks before crimbo. More chance of pulling my foreskin up over my head to keep my ears warm than getting a replacement delivered.
'dangle berries'.
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Invite the student for Crimbo, he can be your temporary dishwasher.
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Well I hate it when that happens.
It all works. I've down nothing, except not use it for a week, and put it back together (as going around with a meter didn't help).
I just know its gonna bite me...
'dangle berries', 'dangle berries' and double 'dangle berries'.
Sorry to disturb the dust on this one, but guess what. 2 rather weeks before crimbo. More chance of pulling my foreskin up over my head to keep my ears warm than getting a replacement delivered.
'dangle berries'.
you find a shop with one in stock, and i'll pick it up in the estate,..... no problem
and take the old one to the tip on the way home..... sort of thing...
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Amazing, ours packed up a week ago (it was only 23 years old as well) they just don't make them to last anymore :(
Probably something simple, but decided to invest in a new one.
i think yer should do away with it and use all that lovely warm water from that modern boiler youve got :y ;D
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Well I hate it when that happens.
It all works. I've down nothing, except not use it for a week, and put it back together (as going around with a meter didn't help).
I just know its gonna bite me...
'dangle berries', 'dangle berries' and double 'dangle berries'.
Sorry to disturb the dust on this one, but guess what. 2 rather weeks before crimbo. More chance of pulling my foreskin up over my head to keep my ears warm than getting a replacement delivered.
'dangle berries'.
you find a shop with one in stock, and i'll pick it up in the estate,..... no problem
and take the old one to the tip on the way home..... sort of thing...
Thanks, though thats not the problem, as they fit in the Rover not problem :)
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Amazing, ours packed up a week ago (it was only 23 years old as well) they just don't make them to last anymore :(
Probably something simple, but decided to invest in a new one.
i think yer should do away with it and use all that lovely warm water from that modern boiler youve got :y ;D
Me, I have an infamous Potterton Suprima ;D. I'm in trouble next time the ECU goes, as there's not much board left to solder to next time ;D
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i might add that there used to be a kitchen appliance place just off the bypass on the other side of brackley from you that did pretty good deals..... i bought a fancy schmancy double fan oven from there a few years ago.....
they were pretty good about delivery, and let me collect a dryer for my mum when she needed one in a hurry....
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i had forgotten the rover still worked..... easy done..... :y
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i might add that there used to be a kitchen appliance place just off the bypass on the other side of brackley from you that did pretty good deals..... i bought a fancy schmancy double fan oven from there a few years ago.....
they were pretty good about delivery, and let me collect a dryer for my mum when she needed one in a hurry....
Yeah, got washing machine from there.
But last time I wanted something, they wouldn't do it, saying they only supplied appliances with kitchens. Pretty certain they went tits up.
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Paper plates and plastic cutlery time then ::)
When mine went wrong a year ago,,,,before i got the new one....there were 20 odd mugs/8 dinner plates/8 saucepans/2 frying pans/all the cutlery in the 'kitchen sink' waiting to be washed ::) ;D
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Now its cooled down, tempted to stick it on a cold rinse, as the currently running/stalled cycle was nearly at the drying cycle ::)
Need to shut down the Media Center though - that had a monk on about having the power removed repeatedly.
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by the way,
http://www.electricaldiscountuk.co.uk/dishwashers.php?make=All+makes&type=74&ord=real_price&showresults=go
this lot were quite good about quick delivery and pricing when our washing machine blew up a year or so back...... around Xmas time.....
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It bangs the trip as soon as the door is closed. I guess the door switch is some kind of interlock for pumps/heaters/solenoids.
As far as I can see currently, the door wiring at the hinge looks fine, and there is no water sat in the tray under the machine.
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I could really use a circuit diagram ::)
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are you sure its the dishwasher if you have 3 ring mains on one curcuit breaker thats a lot...just a suggestion now winters here do you have more things turned on it could just be your overloading the breaker and by turning on the dishwasher or closing the door which i guess makes some form of connection the curcuit is now overloaded and trips........you could try turning off some other stuff on the curcuit and giving it a go if the dishwasher still works that is :o
god i do hope i am not right imagine all that work on the dishwasher to date >:( >:( >:(
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Do you have a 13A plug on the cooker circuit? If so, these are often not RCD protected on an installation of the vintage that your is... Might make diagnosis easier when it's not taking out the whole house.
A 500V megger would be a handy diagnostic tool. Don't suppose you have one?
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mind you you said rcd sorry my mistake so assume the 3 ring mains are each on thier own mcb
if you have tried turning of other cuircuits on the same rcd then other itmes on the same curcuit as the dishwasher leaving that on and still trips to confirm its dishwasher i will erm shut up :y
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Google shows several mentions of that model blowing trips on consumer unit.
Mostly related to faulty heater. :-\
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At least with old fuses you could replace with a rusty nail and then follow the smoke. ;D ;D
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Thing is if you have got it tripping as soon as switched on, something is leaky. My daughter's washing M/C was doing the same thing, I verified this with a PAT tester, and then started unplugging sections until it stopped tripping. It turned out to be the drier element had gone leaky, although it didn't show up as faulty on a DVM, it needed a higher voltage to break down. Spares are available for most consumer goods at a reasonable price.
Ken
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Element would be my first port of call. If it's got bad enough, leakage between neutral and earth will trip it, then it doesn't need to have actually started heating. A check with a megger would soon reveal the culprit. :y
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At least with old fuses you could replace with a rusty nail and then follow the smoke. ;D ;D
Slightly off topic.....
I didnt have to earlier......i was drilling a hole thro a tile with a wood drill......and leaning on the cordless drill probably a bit too much......i could smell burning and just thought the tile was getting a bit hot.....seconds later smoke came pouring out of the drill....ooopppppssssss..
However since its cooled down it still works......altho it has a slight pong to it ;D
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At least with old fuses you could replace with a rusty nail and then follow the smoke. ;D ;D
Slightly off topic.....
I didnt have to earlier......i was drilling a hole thro a tile with a wood drill......and leaning on the cordless drill probably a bit too much......i could smell burning and just thought the tile was getting a bit hot.....seconds later smoke came pouring out of the drill....ooopppppssssss..
However since its cooled down it still works......altho it has a slight pong to it ;D
Nemind Dave, give HD some sausages it will make her feel better.
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At least with old fuses you could replace with a rusty nail and then follow the smoke. ;D ;D
Slightly off topic.....
I didnt have to earlier......i was drilling a hole thro a tile with a wood drill......and leaning on the cordless drill probably a bit too much......i could smell burning and just thought the tile was getting a bit hot.....seconds later smoke came pouring out of the drill....ooopppppssssss..
However since its cooled down it still works......altho it has a slight pong to it ;D
sure TB will find that very helpfull ;D ;D ;D
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Just unplug the major components one at a time and use the trip to test.....start with the heater.
These home appliances are not that complicated in reality and if you could get your head around the full power supply and HT circuit of a CRT setup then its a doddle in comparison.
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Some machines have the element underneath as a heater in rigid-pipe arrangement, others as simple 'kettle' elements laying in the 'bath' of water under the bottom basket.....on the three machines that I`ve had 'go': elements have always been the cause of popping the RCC-breakers........although a leaky rubber element grommet was implicated in one spectacular nocturnal display: "crackin`arcing Gromit!" ;D
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H says "...buy a new one! Tight arse, trying to save on heating again"
;D
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If it's the heater element I have one that I think is the right one. Mind you, I have a whole Hotpoint D/W outside the back door too ::)
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Disconnect the element, thus reducing leccy bills, and leave a tea towel next to the machine. Job done. :y
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Do you have a 13A plug on the cooker circuit? If so, these are often not RCD protected on an installation of the vintage that your is... Might make diagnosis easier when it's not taking out the whole house.
A 500V megger would be a handy diagnostic tool. Don't suppose you have one?
Here, the 13A on the cooker switch, as well as the cooker itself, is protected by the same RCD.
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Element would be my first port of call. If it's got bad enough, leakage between neutral and earth will trip it, then it doesn't need to have actually started heating. A check with a megger would soon reveal the culprit. :y
Certainly wasn't the element in the summer, as it was still banging out with that disconnected. In fact, by unplugging, I couldn't work out what it was. Ran out of time, went on hols, it had fixed itself by time I got home.
Just got a meter (digital :() on it from the mains plug.
L-N - open
N-L - open
L-E - open
E-L - open
N-E - open
E-N - strange readings, sometimes a bit like a capacitor, sometimes just rubbish, eg -14kohms, I suspect an oddity of DVMs
The rectified natural of N-E resistance would be in line with dampness.
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H says "...buy a new one! Tight arse, trying to save on heating again"
;D
Not sure I can deal with retarded sales people and retarded call centres. If I could just drive to Banbury and buy one, thats fine. But I failed miserably in the summer. Most conversations with the inbreds went along the lines of:
Me: I want to take it away today, which of these do you have in stock
Inbred: All of them, sir
Me: OK, I'll take this one
wander off to pay
Inbred: And when would you like it delivered
Me: No, I want to take it now
Inbred: Oh, we don't hold them here, but can get it to you in 10 days
Grrrr
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I believe fault found, repaired, and is doing a wash now.
Cheers guys :)
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Well come on then...?
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Well come on then...?
Well, its still working. Only about 30m into cycle though, so bearly into water heating, and certainly not to dry cycle yet
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what was it after all that
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a hour later and no reply
i wonder if the fire department has left yet?
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maybe TB is still beating it ;D
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what was it after all that
Sorry, I thought I had said what I thought it was when I did the measurements, based on what I (didn't) find in the summer. I was correct, it was the wiring.
Cycle should have finished, and the laptop still works (wifi isn't on the UPS) :)
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Clean dishes :D
Just need to fire it on again, its amazing how much washing up 2 people can make over a day and a half :o
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Clean dishes :D
Just need to fire it on again, its amazing how much washing up 2 people can make over a day and a half :o
::) Tell her about it! ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D