Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Arpy on 26 September 2011, 21:39:50
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my 2.2 has recently started to idle very badly when first switching to LPG sometimes the engine manement light comes on this clears after a while.
If I switch back to petrol the engine ticks over fine
I dont notice the problem if the gas switches whilst I am moving and once its been on gas for a while it ticks over fine strnge one this any help out there!!
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A wild stab in the dark here (but with a little experience ::)) ;)
Does it do this when cool (but not too cold) and it switches over very quickly still? I'd say that the petrol ECU is still throwing some enrichment in which the LPG is copying (as it's a piggyback system) and doesn't need ;)
Only solution is to turn the switchover temp and/or time up a little or make sure you don't leave it idling when you first start it in those situations
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If the light has come on it's stored a code, might be worth checking what that is. Probably a misfire, and the set up is dropping out of it's LPG happy operational "window". This window is smaller than on petrol, so you need to make sure ignition system is up to scratch.
How long has it run on gas without issue? How old are the plugs? How long does it take to switch to gas from cold start up? This is a setting in the software.
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also worth looking at plugs as mentioned, LPG needs a stronger spark.
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sorry took so long to get back on this matter
I have had lpg now for well over 3 years and done 55k
gas usually switches within a mile or so engine not that warm as always
I usually change plugs at every other oil change because I know they need changing more regulaly (but I will change them hopefully this week with oil)
so if it is an ignition problem how do I resolve this?
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I have been on lpg for some years now andd on 3 omegas. Sparg plugs are always the 1st not to mention cheapest option to change when you have a problem like this. Make sure you get NGK plugs (BKR5EK) they are a bit more expensive than others but without doubt the best and will last at least twice as long!
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I have been on lpg for some years now andd on 3 omegas. Sparg plugs are always the 1st not to mention cheapest option to change when you have a problem like this. Make sure you get NGK plugs (BKR5EK) they are a bit more expensive than others but without doubt the best and will last at least twice as long!
Afraid I disagree... After some 70k in 2 LPG Omega's I'd still recommend Vauxhall plugs bought on Trade Club for under £2 each, changed at regular intervals (say 20k) over NGK's ;) I tried a set of NGK plugs in my last Omega and there was no difference whatsoever so why pay more?
If we were comparing them to other brands, however, NGK over Champion for LPG applications every time because I went through a set of Champion's in my LPG RR in under 5k :o :o
To the OP, if the plugs don't cure it you may have issues with the coil pack but you need to get the fault codes read before randomly changing parts ;) Has the LPG system been serviced in that time? ???
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20k here on GM plugs, on gas. They had done about 25k on petrol before converted too!
For the money you can't go wrong, can't see the point in spending big bucks on plugs
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I find bog standard GM plugs are fine on LPG. They get swapped at 40k and still have plenty of life at that mileage. By all means check the plugs but I suspect that this problem will lie elsewhere. If you are having problems with plugs failing on LPG, the chances are that the system is mapped too lean IMHO.
Whilst it's true that LPG requires a stronger spark, this will manifest itself when the engine is under heavy load. At idle a very weak spark will be enough for a stable idle, on LPG or petrol.
If the car is thoroughly warmed up on petrol, does it switch over to LPG OK without the poor idle?
If so, as Lazydocker says, it might be switching over to LPG a little soon after startup. The question in my mind is why it has started doing this when previously it wasn't an issue? Perhaps a problem with the temperature sensor on the vapouriser. Does it switch to LPG earlier after startup than it used to?
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I'm thinking that the LPG hasn't been touched for a while and needs a service (which includes a tweak of course) to get the calibration correct again. Or that the Vaporiser diaphragm has perished in time and may need a service ;)
The trouble with the Omega (and most cars) is that on startup it enriches the mixture. This is not required for LPG and if it is switching too soon can manifest itself as a poor idle.
Just out of interest... What LPG system is it?
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Yep, if it hasn't been serviced recently then it could well be that it's requiring a large fuel trim on LPG, hence my question of whether it switches over cleanly when warm or not.
A check of the vapour pressure and a quick tweak along with replacement of the filters, draining of heavy ends, etc. would do no harm, but will require the lead and software to talk to the LPG ECU.
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Well I guess the plugs is a matter of opinion then, but I have done over 750k miles on lpg and would not use anything other make even GM! Having said that, I only pay £3 for mine so hardly breaking the bank!
All the other points made are valid and with lpg it tends to be the same things that need changing, plugs, leads/coil pack, rocker cover gasket, o2 sensor etc it is just a matter of trial and error and eventually experience that tells you which one it is or when it is time to change them.
Which system will make a difference too. Direct injection with its own ECU takes care of its self but my first system, some 10 years ago had to be re-tuned at regular intervals and like anything else........regular servicing is a must.
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Another vote for GMs here, both my LPG Omegas use GM twins :y
Direct injection with its own ECU takes care of its self but my first system, some 10 years ago had to be re-tuned at regular intervals and like anything else........regular servicing is a must.
I think you mean fully sequential and mixer systems ;)
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If you say so :y
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If the car runs fine on petrol does that not point to an LPG problem? I would think the car needs to run properly on petrol before it can possibly run right on Gas?
Would be idea to measure what voltage there is at the spark plug?
As for spark plugs, I have seen where people have bought these expensive specific LPG plugs which being honest did not last too long at all.
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If the car runs fine on petrol does that not point to an LPG problem? I would think the car needs to run properly on petrol before it can possibly run right on Gas?
Would be idea to measure what voltage there is at the spark plug?
As for spark plugs, I have seen where people have bought these expensive specific LPG plugs which being honest did not last too long at all.
I'm still leaning towards a coil pack problem but the OP needs to have the codes read to see what the EML is coming on for ;)
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I need to start being interested in LPG.... Its just most cars I have played with which haf LPG has been a nightnare :(
I do however bow to you Boyz with the LPG knowledge ;)
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I need to start being interested in LPG.... Its just most cars I have played with which haf LPG has been a nightnare :(
I do however bow to you Boyz with the LPG knowledge ;)
Same principle, mon ami, a flammable vapour, mixed with air, ignited at the right time :y
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I need to start being interested in LPG.... Its just most cars I have played with which haf LPG has been a nightnare :(
I do however bow to you Boyz with the LPG knowledge ;)
Same principle, mon ami, a flammable vapour, mixed with air, ignited at the right time :y
Get off! :D
I need to dig up a thread to show you what I actually ment.... Some home DIY LPG conversations .....well enough said ......
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I need to start being interested in LPG.... Its just most cars I have played with which haf LPG has been a nightnare :(
I do however bow to you Boyz with the LPG knowledge ;)
Same principle, mon ami, a flammable vapour, mixed with air, ignited at the right time :y
Get off! :D
I need to dig up a thread to show you what I actually ment.... Some home DIY LPG conversations .....well enough said ......
Some Pro fitted AND CERTIFIED ones are a bloody mess as well. I saw one at the Oxford meet where the vapour feed could easily rest against the EGR...
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Like everything else, you get what you pay for. I have had 2 Prinz systems done on 2 omegaS, one did over 200k the other over 300k and all I ever did was replaced normal wear and tear parts!
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Like everything else, you get what you pay for. I have had 2 Prinz systems done on 2 omegaS, one did over 200k the other over 300k and all I ever did was replaced normal wear and tear parts!
But that doesn't mean the fitting is up to a high standard ;)
I have, so far, only seen 1 "Professional" conversion (on an Omega) of a standard I would have driven away... The ones I have seen range from just untidy to down right dangerous, via purely wrongly fitted and not working properly ::) ::)
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Trust me, been on lpg for about 10 years now and all 3 of mine were spot on!
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Trust me, been on lpg for about 10 years now and all 3 of mine were spot on!
Good! I'd like to think that if someone is going to part with £1500+ that the work would be excellent :y It's not always the case though ;)
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I agree, I recommend where I had mine done all the time and people turn a funny shade of grey when I tell them how much I paid. Usually they come back sometime later and tell me how they paid £x less than I did and then wonder why they have to go back to the installer more times in the first 6 weeks than I have done in 10 years!
It's no wonder lpg gets a bad press!
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I agree, I recommend where I had mine done all the time and people turn a funny shade of grey when I tell them how much I paid. Usually they come back sometime later and tell me how they paid £x less than I did and then wonder why they have to go back to the installer more times in the first 6 weeks than I have done in 10 years!
It's no wonder lpg gets a bad press!
Agreed. LPGA UKLPG are doing more harm than good in that respect by not policing the members they promote, and refusing to help their disgruntled customers when installs go wrong.
The problem is, people go for LPG primarily to save money, so will generally go for the cheapest install they can find. :(
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If the car runs fine on petrol does that not point to an LPG problem? I would think the car needs to run properly on petrol before it can possibly run right on Gas?
Absolutely right. The LPG system uses the same fuel and ignition system that is used when running on petrol, plus a few additional bits, so if it doesn't run well on petrol it sure as hell won't on LPG.
Would be idea to measure what voltage there is at the spark plug?
As for spark plugs, I have seen where people have bought these expensive specific LPG plugs which being honest did not last too long at all.
There is a folklore that says LPG is hard on spark plugs and ignition systems. It's true to say that it will need a stronger spark than petrol but a modern wasted spark or coil-on-plug system in good condition will deliver a much more powerful spark than is needed for either fuel - until it starts to deteriorate.
Also bear in mind that the strength of the spark required is proportional to the pressure in the combustion chamber. It's very low at idle and under light load, and highest at peak torque, so as an ignition system degrades, it starts to falter at full throttle at medium revs first.
Back in the days of points and distributors people probably had more issues with ignition systems on LPG, and some of that folklore has stuck.
Ditto spark plugs. There really is no need for the iridium plugs that some LPG "experts" swear by. In the days of nasty mixer systems where the fuel mixture could go lean one minute and rich the next, spark plugs probably suffered. Not because they were running LPG but because the LPG system / install was sh1te and was overheating the plugs under some conditions and fouling them under others. So, again, what's still being perpetrated as gospel is no longer really relevant - if you are setting up LPG systems properly.
I need to start being interested in LPG.... Its just most cars I have played with which haf LPG has been a nightnare :(
I suspect the problem is that you are only seeing the ones with the problems. ;)
Next time we're at a meet, give one of us a shout and we'll happily blather on about all the ins and outs of LPG systems until you are bored to tears. ;D
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I agree, I recommend where I had mine done all the time and people turn a funny shade of grey when I tell them how much I paid. Usually they come back sometime later and tell me how they paid £x less than I did and then wonder why they have to go back to the installer more times in the first 6 weeks than I have done in 10 years!
It's no wonder lpg gets a bad press!
You might want to have a look at some of the installs carried out by Lazydocker,Kevin Wood and other forum members if you get the chance.All done to a much higher standard than any pro install I have ever seen.And a hell of a lot less expensive. ;)
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Like everything else, you get what you pay for. I have had 2 Prinz systems done on 2 omegaS, one did over 200k the other over 300k and all I ever did was replaced normal wear and tear parts!
But that doesn't mean the fitting is up to a high standard ;)
I have, so far, only seen 1 "Professional" conversion (on an Omega) of a standard I would have driven away... The ones I have seen range from just untidy to down right dangerous, via purely wrongly fitted and not working properly ::) ::)
He said the P word, Prinz are probably the best system so tend to be used by the better installers.
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Thanks Martin, finally had an acknowledgement that I MIGHT have actually had a half decent installation! :y
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my 2.2 has recently started to idle very badly when first switching to LPG sometimes the engine manement light comes on this clears after a while.
If I switch back to petrol the engine ticks over fine
I dont notice the problem if the gas switches whilst I am moving and once its been on gas for a while it ticks over fine strnge one this any help out there!!
Hy Árpi,
I guess in your vaporiser might be some water precipitated by cold-warm alternation. If I were you, I would go to a certified garage with my car , make her vapo cleaning and LPG ECU program refreshing. ;)
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Like everything else, you get what you pay for. I have had 2 Prinz systems done on 2 omegaS, one did over 200k the other over 300k and all I ever did was replaced normal wear and tear parts!
But that doesn't mean the fitting is up to a high standard ;)
I have, so far, only seen 1 "Professional" conversion (on an Omega) of a standard I would have driven away... The ones I have seen range from just untidy to down right dangerous, via purely wrongly fitted and not working properly ::) ::)
He said the P word, Prinz are probably the best system so tend to be used by the better installers.
Not necessarily - I have seen some dreadful Prinz installs. Its an excellent system, but again, closed to all but those installers who are in the old boys club UKLPG.
I've not seem Dodge's install, but it clearly works well for him, and I get the impression he has used the same installer multiple times.
Dodge, lets see some pics :y :y
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Like everything else, you get what you pay for. I have had 2 Prinz systems done on 2 omegaS, one did over 200k the other over 300k and all I ever did was replaced normal wear and tear parts!
But that doesn't mean the fitting is up to a high standard ;)
I have, so far, only seen 1 "Professional" conversion (on an Omega) of a standard I would have driven away... The ones I have seen range from just untidy to down right dangerous, via purely wrongly fitted and not working properly ::) ::)
He said the P word, Prinz are probably the best system so tend to be used by the better installers.
I beg to differ ::) ::) Yes, the Prins kit is good but that doesn't mean it's fitted well. At least 1 of the installations I have helped a member put right (possibly 2, can't remember ::)) was a £2k Prins installation and the Vaporiser coolant feed was taken from the thin Throttle body hose :o :o >:( >:(Thanks Martin, finally had an acknowledgement that I MIGHT have actually had a half decent installation! :y
You may well do, and as you have been back to them for more than one you probably do ;)
I never said that there was anything wrong with yours ;) How could I? I've never seen it ;D
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Like everything else, you get what you pay for. I have had 2 Prinz systems done on 2 omegaS, one did over 200k the other over 300k and all I ever did was replaced normal wear and tear parts!
But that doesn't mean the fitting is up to a high standard ;)
I have, so far, only seen 1 "Professional" conversion (on an Omega) of a standard I would have driven away... The ones I have seen range from just untidy to down right dangerous, via purely wrongly fitted and not working properly ::) ::)
He said the P word, Prinz are probably the best system so tend to be used by the better installers.
I beg to differ ::) ::) Yes, the Prins kit is good but that doesn't mean it's fitted well. At least 1 of the installations I have helped a member put right (possibly 2, can't remember ::)) was a £2k Prins installation and the Vaporiser coolant feed was taken from the thin Throttle body hose :o :o >:( >:(Thanks Martin, finally had an acknowledgement that I MIGHT have actually had a half decent installation! :y
You may well do, and as you have been back to them for more than one you probably do ;)
I never said that there was anything wrong with yours ;) How could I? I've never seen it ;D
Another victim of a certain installer went to a Prinz installer and had a good install, mind you I had to do legal letters and Police visits to deal with the poor one I had on the last car, (ECU in air box, loom next to EGR)
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Damn no edit
The legal letters and Police were to do with bullying a few years later not the install itself.
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I'll get some pics up soon!