Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Varche on 01 November 2011, 11:23:50
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I bet no one saw that coming. Greek PM to have a referendum but the actual question to be put to the people has not yet been framed. Could be Do you want a big fat pension, early retiring age and phantom government jobs? YES /NO or maybe You think you are poor now, tick this box to become even poorer while the rich remain largely unaffected YES/NO ;D ;D ;D
All we need now is the Italians and the Spanish to also have a referendum on whether they want the austerity measures their leaders agreed (in secret) with the leaders of the EU.
It is still a house of cards........... I'll give it 24 more months.
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Yeah, I was really hoping our share price might stay at it's current level so I don't lose money on the recent (1st Nov) ESPP buy, but no.. the doom-sayers were out in force last week to start the slide, and now Greece want to go and screw it all up too.. ::) :P
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This EU thing is better than any soap opera! Any guesses what shaped spanner with be chucked into the works next? ;D
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This EU thing is better than any soap opera! Any guesses what shaped spanner with be chucked into the works next? ;D
It will be metric and not say BSW. ;D ;D ;D
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My socket set is WHITWORTH ;D ;D
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Why is the term EU Leaders used....all I ever see is the french and german pair !!!!!!!!!! >:(
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I bet no one saw that coming. Greek PM to have a referendum but the actual question to be put to the people has not yet been framed. Could be Do you want a big fat pension, early retiring age and phantom government jobs? YES /NO or maybe You think you are poor now, tick this box to become even poorer while the rich remain largely unaffected YES/NO ;D ;D ;D
All we need now is the Italians and the Spanish to also have a referendum on whether they want the austerity measures their leaders agreed (in secret) with the leaders of the EU.
It is still a house of cards........... I'll give it 24 more months.
That's generous Varche.... ::)
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I love it. Every time I watch the news the situation is different. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerous.
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Reminds me of a ditty from times past that may have some resonance in the coming months:
There's not a man on my ottoman - there hasn't been one for weeks;
There's not a man on my ottoman - he's off to fight the Greeks.
Eyethangyew. :-* :-* :-*
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If they ever get to a referendum. The Greek prime minister
is in the headmasters / headmistresses office having dinner on Wednesday with Merkel and Sarkozy, no doubt being reminded. "Veh have vays of making you comply" ::)
The Question will be along the lines of:
"Will you vote for this now for these measures to save the Euro, or vote again in a few weeks time with a few more concessions from Brussels"
"Yes, we want to be poor now."
"No, we want a few more concessions from Brussels before we vote again so we are not quite so poor."
As we all know that European democracy works on the principle, that if you give the wrong answer, you get a few further concessions from Brussels and vote again, this is repeated until you give the correct answer. :o :o :o
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:D It will always end up in tears because it seems that every poor country that is lent to defaults on repayment and eventually has it written off! Just look at what Africa has done over the many years and yet still comes back year after year for morev and is once again given the loan to automatically default on and then ask for more 'contributions because they are homeless or their children are starving'.
Easy solution...throw those countries who do not abide by the rules out of the EU and do not give any further loans once one has been defaulted on. At the end of the day it was the actions of those in power in those countries who led their country into debt. Just like Blair and Brown did here. We have enough to contend with to right their wrongs without assisting any other country to be better of than we are.
We are paing our national debt....so should they!
At the end of the day I still think that we were forced into the EU and would be better off being independant and allowed to again trade in a free market internationally.
What the hell does Greeece export anyway, is olive oil it? >:(
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If they ever get to a referendum. The Greek prime minister is in the headmasters / headmistresses office having dinner on Wednesday with Merkel and Sarkozy, no doubt being reminded. "Veh have vays of making you comply" ::)
The Question will be along the lines of:
"Will you vote for this now for these measures to save the Euro, or vote again in a few weeks time with a few more concessions from Brussels"
"Yes, we want to be poor now."
"No, we want a few more concessions from Brussels before we vote again so we are not quite so poor."
As we all know that European democracy works on the principle, that if you give the wrong answer, you get a few further concessions from Brussels and vote again, this is repeated until you give the correct answer. :o :o :o
As we all know that European democracy works on the principle, that if you give the wrong answer, you get a few further concessions from Brussels and vote again, this is repeated until you give the correct answer
That covert way of doing business should have already alerted those with any interest in the future of this country as it is precisely the method used with the Republic of Ireland in the aftermath of their failure to ratify the Lisbon Treaty.
The anticipated military coup there will knock the question of these Greek financial woes very firmly into the long grass.
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:-[Could have worded that a bit better - the anticipated coup will of course be within Greek borders and not the Republic of Ireland's. :-[
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I think the Greeks are boxing clever.
They may end up out of the euro and out of debt. So the big question (the bankers) will be asking is what happens to the outstanding loans?
Remember if you owe a bank 100 pounds you are in trouble, if you owe them a billion pounds the bank is in trouble.
Won't be long before Greece is the Meds number one tourist haven.Cheap prices compared with euro and sterling anyway, sun etc. The boom will mean construction work restarts to build more bed, airport capacity in Greece.
Of course if the banks "lose out" by having to write off all the Greek Debt , then you can rest assured the rest of us will have to make it up. :y
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::) dont know why I'm reading this thread with satisfaction ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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::) dont know why I'm reading this thread with satisfaction ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I wonder why. ;D ;D ;D :y
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::) dont know why I'm reading this thread with satisfaction ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I wonder why. ;D ;D ;D :y
;D :y :y
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::) dont know why I'm reading this thread with satisfaction ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Probably for the same reasons we will if the French default :y ;D ;D ;D
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I bet no one saw that coming. Greek PM to have a referendum but the actual question to be put to the people has not yet been framed. Could be Do you want a big fat pension, early retiring age and phantom government jobs? YES /NO or maybe You think you are poor now, tick this box to become even poorer while the rich remain largely unaffected YES/NO ;D ;D ;D
All we need now is the Italians and the Spanish to also have a referendum on whether they want the austerity measures their leaders agreed (in secret) with the leaders of the EU.
It is still a house of cards........... I'll give it 24 more months.
There are some who are beginning to see this as a domestic political ploy rather than an attempt at furthering democracy. Papandreou does not want an early election. According to a Greek newspaper, 59% do not want the austerity deal that has been struck, but 70% want to stay in the EU ( ::) ::)). So, the theory goes that they will have a referendum that says either you accept the austerity and stay in the EU...or you leave the EU. The Greeks will not want to let go of Nanny', so the election is avoided, the austerity plan wins through and Pap lives to fight another day..
Seems a strangely likely outcome to me. :(
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I bet no one saw that coming. Greek PM to have a referendum but the actual question to be put to the people has not yet been framed. Could be Do you want a big fat pension, early retiring age and phantom government jobs? YES /NO or maybe You think you are poor now, tick this box to become even poorer while the rich remain largely unaffected YES/NO ;D ;D ;D
All we need now is the Italians and the Spanish to also have a referendum on whether they want the austerity measures their leaders agreed (in secret) with the leaders of the EU.
It is still a house of cards........... I'll give it 24 more months.
There are some who are beginning to see this as a domestic political ploy rather than an attempt at furthering democracy. Papandreou does not want an early election. According to a Greek newspaper, 59% do not want the austerity deal that has been struck, but 70% want to stay in the EU ( ::) ::)). So, the theory goes that they will have a referendum that says either you accept the austerity and stay in the EU...or you leave the EU. The Greeks will not want to let go of Nanny', so the election is avoided, the austerity plan wins through and Pap lives to fight another day..
Seems a strangely likely outcome to me. :(
I have to agree this does make sense, however I want to see it go tits up. No EU :y :y so we won't need a referendumn to get out of this expensive folly. ;)
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I have to agree this does make sense, however I want to see it go tits up. No EU :y :y so we won't need a referendumn to get out of this expensive folly. ;)
I want, at least, to see the EU get used to the fact that their ramblings are put to the public for approval by the national government concerned instead of just rubber stamped. After all, we (and the Greeks, for that matter) fought a war to stop the Germans dictating how we run our countries. ;)
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I have to agree this does make sense, however I want to see it go tits up. No EU :y :y so we won't need a referendumn to get out of this expensive folly. ;)
I want, at least, to see the EU get used to the fact that their ramblings are put to the public for approval by the national government concerned instead of just rubber stamped. After all, we (and the Greeks, for that matter) fought a war to stop the Germans dictating how we run our countries. ;)
Yes and a fat lot of good it did. It bankrupted us and we only finished paying the yanks back a fifty year loan a short while ago. We should have exacted a bigger price out of the losing countries than we did. Instead we helped them get tooled up. :o :o
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I have to agree this does make sense, however I want to see it go tits up. No EU :y :y so we won't need a referendumn to get out of this expensive folly. ;)
I want, at least, to see the EU get used to the fact that their ramblings are put to the public for approval by the national government concerned instead of just rubber stamped. After all, we (and the Greeks, for that matter) fought a war to stop the Germans dictating how we run our countries. ;)
I agree we need more democracy and referendums but we are unlikely to get them as democracy is about as popular in Brussels as wooden stakes and garlic are at a vampires convention. ::) ::) ::)
At least the Germans run a successful economy. What I hate is the adoption of the French socialist model and bureaucracy by the EU and its imposition by stealth on all of the other EU countries. This is killing economic growth in this country and creating the sort of high unemployment levels associated with European countries that have similar social models to France.
France is likely to default in the next 10 years despite their massive subsidies by the EU agricultural policy, they are the largest agricultural power in the EU, they are also the most visited country in the world by tourists and have imposed through the EU tariffs to protect many of their industries (this is why all digital cameras in Europe only record up to 29min 59 seconds of video, so they are not regarded as a video recorder and have to pay an import duty designed to protect Thompson-CSF) and government subsidies for their industries like Airbus.
I always viewed the EU as an attempt by France to create a trading block big enough to be able to impose import duties to protect their industries and way of life 'a fortress Europe', unfortunately for France the EU has not got a big enough population or enough economic traction to succeed in this against the US and the BRIC countries. But is is dragging down all of EU Europe including this country.
If the EU was just a free market trading block, which was it's original intention, we would all be much richer and better off, and IMHO have a successful EU which would have benefited all of it citizens but it was hi-jacked by the French especially the Frenchmen Jacques Delors, Mitterrand and his ilk, which led to the Maastricht treaty, which led to the Euro and the beginning of the end, but there will be much suffering for all of the EU population (like there was in the USSR) between now and the end. >:( >:( >:(
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I have to agree this does make sense, however I want to see it go tits up. No EU :y :y so we won't need a referendumn to get out of this expensive folly. ;)
I want, at least, to see the EU get used to the fact that their ramblings are put to the public for approval by the national government concerned instead of just rubber stamped. After all, we (and the Greeks, for that matter) fought a war to stop the Germans dictating how we run our countries. ;)
I agree we need more democracy and referendums but we are unlikely to get them as democracy is about as popular in Brussels as wooden stakes and garlic are at a vampires convention. ::) ::) ::)......//
democracy and referendums
I can't see that happening given the abysmal standard of those sitting at Westminster.
Individuals elected for the specific purpose of providing a sound structure of government and competent administration – but failing miserably - from which this country and her peoples can exist in a constructive meaningful way and prosper.
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Democracy....what a laugh. ;D
I saw PM questions today, and during one riotus moment, the Speaker called 'Order, Order, Order,.....this is a democracy, he deserves and has the right to be heard' ::)
How funny it does not apply to the general public !!!!!!!!!!! >:(
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ok.. if Greeks have the balls to say NO, the next day they will be 50% poor..
and cant predict what will happen to EU ::)
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Update: Apparently, the referendum will address the new EU plan to rescue Greece and not whether the country will remain or not in the eurozone, said a Greek government spokesman.
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Then again, the FT says that the people will not be asked whether they accept the bailout terms, but whether they want to remain within the EU and the eurozone.
One of them must be right. Or not. ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Update: Apparently, the referendum will address the new EU plan to rescue Greece and not whether the country will remain or not in the eurozone, said a Greek government spokesman.
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Then again, the FT says that the people will not be asked whether they accept the bailout terms, but whether they want to remain within the EU and the eurozone.
One of them must be right. Or not. ::) ::) ::) ::)
in any case situation wont change Nick.. ;)
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http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/ (http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/)
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http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/ (http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/)
Don't reveal my sources, Cem!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
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http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/ (http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/)
Don't reveal my sources, Cem!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
;D :-\
honestly speaking, I dont care about EU.. and what happens to brussels sprouts..
but Greece is our neighbour country and if their economy become sick , we start to sneeze..
from the very beginning they depended too much on EU .. and no doubt euro also prepared this result..
now I can understand their dilemma.. if they vote yes, may be they will save the day for a while but what about future.. same conditions will apply and nothing will change.
if they vote no, next day they will wake up poor, and without a strong industry they cant overcome those economic problems in the short term.. however, if they vote no, in the long term I do really believe they can make things better ..we will see.
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http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/ (http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/)
Don't reveal my sources, Cem!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
;D :-\
honestly speaking, I dont care about EU.. and what happens to brussels sprouts..
but Greece is our neighbour country and if their economy become sick , we start to sneeze..
from the very beginning they depended too much on EU .. and no doubt euro also prepared this result..
now I can understand their dilemma.. if they vote yes, may be they will save the day for a while but what about future.. same conditions will apply and nothing will change.
if they vote no, next day they will wake up poor, and without a strong industry they cant overcome those economic problems in the short term.. however, if they vote no, in the long term I do really believe they can make things better ..we will see.
In my opinion, you are right, Cem. This is a time for nations to play the long game. Whatever their decision, it will be painful. However, I can liken it to a bad tooth. You can take the morphine and it will make you feel OK for a while, but when the morphine runs out, the tooth will have decayed more and the pain will be worse. Better to have the extraction now, even though it will hurt like hell.. ;)
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The Germans and the French have announced that they are "giving Greece permission to have its referundum".
I hope the Greeks have the courage to vote no.
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The Germans and the French have announced that they are "giving Greece permission to have its referundum".
I hope the Greeks have the courage to vote no.
giving Greece permission to have its referundum
Personally I give thanks that ‘Brussels’ is at the helm as we try to negotiate our way through the rough waters presently upsetting the good ship status quo. 8)
Surely I mustn't be alone in further thanking 'them' for giving us here, in this now inconsequential troubled land, permission to believe that we still have full control of our destiny and have their full blessing to retain the notion that we are indeed a sovereign nation, capable of putting our own people first and foremost and long before any political dogma: Dogma bought and paid for by these benefactors many of whom skulk behind those firmly closed doors that line the corridors of power in that fine European institution.
Where would we be without them? :-\
<In a rather good Father Ted voice>
Sure isn’t the EU great? :-* :-*
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Interesting times ahead I think Den. ;)
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Our chinese takeaway owner said he is giving no money to the taverna down the road. He will put his prices up tho' just in case ;D ;D
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http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/ (http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/)
Don't reveal my sources, Cem!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
;D :-\
honestly speaking, I dont care about EU.. and what happens to brussels sprouts..
but Greece is our neighbour country and if their economy become sick , we start to sneeze..
from the very beginning they depended too much on EU .. and no doubt euro also prepared this result..
now I can understand their dilemma.. if they vote yes, may be they will save the day for a while but what about future.. same conditions will apply and nothing will change.
if they vote no, next day they will wake up poor, and without a strong industry they cant overcome those economic problems in the short term.. however, if they vote no, in the long term I do really believe they can make things better ..we will see.
In my opinion, you are right, Cem. This is a time for nations to play the long game. Whatever their decision, it will be painful. However, I can liken it to a bad tooth. You can take the morphine and it will make you feel OK for a while, but when the morphine runs out, the tooth will have decayed more and the pain will be worse. Better to have the extraction now, even though it will hurt like hell.. ;)
:y
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I can see the euro going the same way as the gold standard. A case of history repeating itself, methinks.... :-\
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Think I still have a stash of Greek Drachma in the draw at home, might be able to spend them after all! ;D
Greece's biggest problem with voting No is that they will then be out of the Euro and will not get the preferential interest rates they enjoy as a result. They still owe a raft of cash and still need a raft of cash to keep afloat and pay the workers.
The result is no different, the Greek austerity measures will come either way.....theya re truely in the crap of thier own making.
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Breaking: Papandreou is expected to offer his resignation in the next half-hour (timed 12:11)
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Breaking: Papandreou is expected to offer his resignation in the next half-hour (timed 12:11)
Do you think he saw Merkel's hit squad coming and decided to get out now before his life tenure was cut short by other means?
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I hear he has officialy offered his resignation and so has the finance minister.
Typical politicians, 'its a bit hard so I'm off!'
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Breaking: Papandreou is expected to offer his resignation in the next half-hour (timed 12:11)
Do you think he saw Merkel's hit squad coming and decided to get out now before his life tenure was cut short by other means?
Smacks of regime change by the back door by Frau Merkel of the 4th reich and her little french gimp too me >:(
Do as we say or else >:( >:(
Just out of interest, who appointed Merkel as the head of Europe ?
Its now coming out that if you now leave the euro, you leave the common market :o
I hope all the fans of europe are watching this because the day we join the euro, this nation will not exist :'( :'(
Best we start making "merlin blocks" again and get them back on the beaches because Merkel will do ANYTHING to protect the fatherland and she doesn't give a t*ss who she walks over to attain that >:( >:(
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I hear he has officialy offered his resignation and so has the finance minister.
Typical politicians, 'its a bit hard so I'm off!'
He hasn't resigned. Now they're just calling for his resignation. What a soap opera! ;)
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BBC news reported that he had tendered his resignation at lucnh (never trust the media!)
SO do the loans to these have the usual statemnet we get e.g.:
'Your country is at risk of you fail to keep up payments on your loan' ;D ;D
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Haso now reprtedly said he isnt resigning and he has cancelled the refurendum -according to Sky news. :o
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Haso now reprtedly said he isnt resigning and he has cancelled the refurendum -according to Sky news. :o
Mmm.. Perhaps he's been "got at", then. Merkels' get her hand up where the sun don't shine, controlling him like a puppet. ;D
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The only explanation imo. :(........I was looking forward to the referundum.It might just have been the first domino.... :)
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Papandrou has been in touch with the martians who have agreed give Greece exclusive mining rights to all the minerals on mars. Merkozy called him a liar and he said 'prove it'. He will now issue 'Red Planet bonds' and the money men are expected to pile in.
I knew it would all be OK :y
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The only explanation imo. :(........I was looking forward to the referundum.It might just have been the first domino.... :)
Doesn't mean the Greek public will accept this, having had a sniff of power. Maybe there'll be a revolt. Then again, they are apparently well brainwashed quite pro-EU. ::)
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Nothing will happen for at least ten days... national kebab week starts on Monday.
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I know I missed an 'e' out of Papandreou, but couldn't edit, so please forgive me.
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I thought the Greek referendum was voted for by their parliament or is Papandreou a puppet dictator telling the Greek people to do what Merkel tells him to, regardless of what anyone else in Greece wants.
A typical EU farce ;D ;D
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I thought the Greek referendum was voted for by their parliament or is Papandreou a puppet dictator telling the Greek people to do what Merkel tells him to, regardless of what anyone else in Greece wants.
A typical EU farce ;D ;D
Sounds to me like his opposition agreed to drop the requirement, and, therefore, that he can rubber stamp it now, so they've been "got at" too. Doesn't mean he isn't a puppet dictator, of course. Most EU governments are headed by them, ours included. ;)
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so what happened:
referandum !! what ? who said that ;D :P
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I thought the Greek referendum was voted for by their parliament or is Papandreou a puppet dictator telling the Greek people to do what Merkel tells him to, regardless of what anyone else in Greece wants.
A typical EU farce ;D ;D
Sounds to me like his opposition agreed to drop the requirement, and, therefore, that he can rubber stamp it now, so they've been "got at" too. Doesn't mean he isn't a puppet dictator, of course. Most EU governments are headed by them, ours included. ;)
I thought ours was a muppet ;D :y
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I thought ours was a muppet ;D :y
He's technically a PM, an acronym for combined Puppet and Muppet. ;D
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Hes now announced hes stepping down.Now the dirty deed has been done.
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Hes now announced hes stepping down.Now the dirty deed has been done.
Where did you read that, Albs? Can't see anything on the news outlets. ???
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Sky ticker about a few minutes ago.
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Although,give it 5 minutes and it might change again. ::) ;D
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Sky ticker about a few minutes ago.
Maybe Murdoch's got a dodgy ticker. ;) ;D
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Actually,I think it was BBC news channel.I hadnt realised it was on that channel or I would have turned it off. ::)
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this picture is definitely a setup/trap >:( >:( >:( >:(
http://haber.gazetevatan.com/abden-atariz-resti-papandreuyu-bitirdi/408849/30/Dunya (http://haber.gazetevatan.com/abden-atariz-resti-papandreuyu-bitirdi/408849/30/Dunya)
they finished his political life in a second.. I'm hearing western itelligency services taking part ..
no surprise they are doing the same here.. as in Gaddafi case >:( >:( >:(
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I'm wish Greeks give a nice kick for EUs arse.. >:(
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Me too Cem. :y
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the economic realities/priorities of Greeks are so different than the realities of ECB.. they need to play with interest rates, they need to devaluate money to decrease consumption, no way Greece can continue this tragedy..
besides even Germany and France break the rules of ECB and euro many times.. definitely those economic rules are not sustainable for Greece even with a large sum of credit.. because their producton levels are below their consumption..
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Given all the problems in the EU, Eurozone and the Euro. What's the general mood amongst people in Turkey, about joining the EU and the Euro at the moment Cem? ???
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Given all the problems in the EU, Eurozone and the Euro. What's the general mood amongst people in Turkey, about joining the EU and the Euro at the moment Cem? ???
honestly no one have hope for EU .. and actually dont care too much..everybody is after their daily problems..
including the govt.. but they behave like they want to enter ;D
another problem is the rules/laws thats pushed to our nose about unsolved Cyprus problem is unacceptable
from our point of view.. EU also know this.. and use against Turkey.. although we have warned them if they accept the Greek part of Cyprus before problems solved there will be no chance for Turkey to enter EU..
but on the other side, there is a group of people (although a minority) like me who dont want to be a part of EU without any condition.. there are many reasons for that..
and I have bad feelings about the future of EU as global economic system is going downwards and there will be wars in the future that may change everything.. Nowadays capitalist system saves the day with local or limited regional wars, regime changes in some petrol producing countries etc.. but when the day comes it wont be enough.. :(