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[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lizzie,

the named countries first of all, are not in the same league from

human rights point of view..

         I cant say my country is perfect but definitely far different

than the others..

          And as for the EU, although the politicians are using it as a tool

for getting some extra votes from dreamers , from an intellectual

point of view, most of my citizens dont want to enter the EU  including

me..EU itself is not a whole as we see the examples in this last

economic crysis..

Yes, that is right Cem, Turkey is nowhere as bad as some others for many reasons, but I included it to demonstrate how human rights issues are even a problem in your country which is inhibiting its entry into the EU which I believe should, if not must happen. 8-) 8-)  

But I note your comments on what the Turkish people require and that should be the deciding factor, but we shall see what your politicians do.

Liizzie ,

if my country will enter EU this must be honorable and with equal

rights like with every other country in the EU..

         Anyway thats a very long subject which I dont want to talk

about on here..

      

That is my point Cem, not only should all EU countries have equal freedom and liberty for all its 400 million,and growing, citizens, but so should all the world's people if, one day, we can achieve it!

That especially includes children who must have their childhood protected.

[amigov6]

What is the accepted norm in some countries is abhorrent to us. Going on the same premise many of our ways are equally as abhorrent to them to the point of being stoning offences, ie alcohol, drugs, casual sex, womens rights, freedom of press, media, zoo & Nuts mags!!!!, Music, complete access to all internet sites.
    Yes i find any arranged/ under age marriage disturbing (in fact i find ANY marriage terrifying) but this is thier way as ours is ours so we have no right to take the higher moral ground & sit in judgement.

[Entwood]

.............................(big snip)......

But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine.

A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....

That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....

Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"

[cem_devecioglu]

.............................(big snip)......

But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine.

A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....

That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....

Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"

agreed to that..

[Lizzie_Zoom]

.............................(big snip)......

But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine.

A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....

That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....

Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"

Very sorry Entwood if you read this as a cheap shot and it was certainly not meant to be, but it is fact that millions of people have lost their lives fighting for our liberties and freedoms, which I am sure you as an ex-military man knows only too well as my Grandfather's, Great Uncle's, Father and one Son do after such sacrifice!

You are right, Jesus was not  a "liberated westerner", let alone even white, but his disciples went forth and spread the 'word' amongst the people of the World, including the countries of Europe.

His teachings included the word of forgiveness, toleration and the warning that children must never be harmed. Mohamed also preached along very similar lines stressing peace to all and the importance of the innocence of children.  An 8 year old child comes under this teaching and should never be harmed by a 58 year old man, which any 'marriage' is so doing.

If countries allow this to happen, going away from both the teaching of Christ and Mohamed then sorry, but they are backward and ignoring the teachings of these men.  Yes it is their country, but should we as part of the human race stand by and allow this to take place no more than slavery / human trafficking / torture no matter where it takes place (including our western countries!)

Do you believe in pedophilia?  No of course you don't, so why defend any person or country who practices it? :-? :-?  Forget human morals for a moment which yes I am passing judgement on using my female "western liberal standards", but just think of the physical effects of  sex has on a child with a man. Is that right?

Merry Christmas Entwood , but let us all remember God's love for us all, his children, and especially the little children who it is down to us to protect, and God forgive anyone, anywhere in the World who commits sin against the children.    We are all sinners, but to me, a mother, sins against children, where ever in the World it takes place, is the biggest sin of all!

[Entwood]

.............................(big snip)......

But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine.

A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....

That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....

Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"

Very sorry Entwood if you read this as a cheap shot and it was certainly not meant to be, but it is fact that millions of people have lost their lives fighting for our liberties and freedoms, which I am sure you as an ex-military man knows only too well as my Grandfather's, Great Uncle's, Father and one Son do after such sacrifice!

You are right, Jesus was not  a "liberated westerner", let alone even white, but his disciples went forth and spread the 'word' amongst the people of the World, including the countries of Europe.

His teachings included the word of forgiveness, toleration and the warning that children must never be harmed. Mohamed also preached along very similar lines stressing peace to all and the importance of the innocence of children.  An 8 year old child comes under this teaching and should never be harmed by a 58 year old man, which any 'marriage' is so doing.

If countries allow this to happen, going away from both the teaching of Christ and Mohamed then sorry, but they are backward and ignoring the teachings of these men.  Yes it is their country, but should we as part of the human race stand by and allow this to take place no more than slavery / human trafficking / torture no matter where it takes place (including our western countries!)

Do you believe in pedophilia?  No of course you don't, so why defend any person or country who practices it? :-? :-?  Forget human morals for a moment which yes I am passing judgement on using my female "western liberal standards", but just think of the physical effects of  sex has on a child with a man. Is that right?

Merry Christmas Entwood , but let us all remember God's love for us all, his children, and especially the little children who it is down to us to protect, and God forgive anyone, anywhere in the World who commits sin against the children.    We are all sinners, but to me a mother sins against children, where ever in the World it takes place, is the biggest sin of all!

Did you actually read the article ?? and others  relating to it Or have any knowledge of the rules/rituals involved??  Where is any sexual activity/paedophilia mentioned ?? In fact the OPPOSITE is stated

the groom had agreed not to consummate the marriage for 10 years and to allow the youngster to live with her mother.

We have neither the knowledge nor the right to demand adherence to OUR principles, especially based on very simple "sound bites" of information.

You claim the "right" to speak and act as you wish... why do you not give others the right to do likewise Instead you try to compel them to follow your rules and beliefs.

And just to finish ... these "backward" countries do have rules .. and do enforce them... in a seperate incident, both father and "husband" arrested

http://www.yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=1145&p=front&a=2

[Lizzie_Zoom]

.............................(big snip)......

But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine.

A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....

That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....

Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"

Very sorry Entwood if you read this as a cheap shot and it was certainly not meant to be, but it is fact that millions of people have lost their lives fighting for our liberties and freedoms, which I am sure you as an ex-military man knows only too well as my Grandfather's, Great Uncle's, Father and one Son do after such sacrifice!

You are right, Jesus was not  a "liberated westerner", let alone even white, but his disciples went forth and spread the 'word' amongst the people of the World, including the countries of Europe.

His teachings included the word of forgiveness, toleration and the warning that children must never be harmed. Mohamed also preached along very similar lines stressing peace to all and the importance of the innocence of children.  An 8 year old child comes under this teaching and should never be harmed by a 58 year old man, which any 'marriage' is so doing.

If countries allow this to happen, going away from both the teaching of Christ and Mohamed then sorry, but they are backward and ignoring the teachings of these men.  Yes it is their country, but should we as part of the human race stand by and allow this to take place no more than slavery / human trafficking / torture no matter where it takes place (including our western countries!)

Do you believe in pedophilia?  No of course you don't, so why defend any person or country who practices it? :-? :-?  Forget human morals for a moment which yes I am passing judgement on using my female "western liberal standards", but just think of the physical effects of  sex has on a child with a man. Is that right?

Merry Christmas Entwood , but let us all remember God's love for us all, his children, and especially the little children who it is down to us to protect, and God forgive anyone, anywhere in the World who commits sin against the children.    We are all sinners, but to me a mother sins against children, where ever in the World it takes place, is the biggest sin of all!

Did you actually read the article ?? and others  relating to it Or have any knowledge of the rules/rituals involved??  Where is any sexual activity/paedophilia mentioned ?? In fact the OPPOSITE is stated

the groom had agreed not to consummate the marriage for 10 years and to allow the youngster to live with her mother.

We have neither the knowledge nor the right to demand adherence to OUR principles, especially based on very simple "sound bites" of information.

You claim the "right" to speak and act as you wish... why do you not give others the right to do likewise Instead you try to compel them to follow your rules and beliefs.

And just to finish ... these "backward" countries do have rules .. and do enforce them... in a seperate incident, both father and "husband" arrested

http://www.yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=1145&p=front&a=2

And you believe that in this case and for all others?  :-? :-?

We will have to agree to disagree on this one Entwood  as we both have very valid opinions which we both rightly will stick to!!   8-) 8-)

Let's face it no matter what we think we won't be able to change anything  


Merry Christmas and have a really good one!  

[doog]

Lizzie,

the named countries first of all, are not in the same league from

human rights point of view..

         I cant say my country is perfect,  but definitely far different

than the others..

          And as for the EU, although the politicians are using it as a tool

for getting some extra votes from dreamers , from an intellectual

point of view, most of my citizens dont want to enter the EU  including

me..EU itself is not a whole as we see the examples in this last

economic crysis..

Another stumbling block is the Turkish occupation of part of cyprus since 1974.

Doug

[cem_devecioglu]

Lizzie,

the named countries first of all, are not in the same league from

human rights point of view..

         I cant say my country is perfect,  but definitely far different

than the others..

          And as for the EU, although the politicians are using it as a tool

for getting some extra votes from dreamers , from an intellectual

point of view, most of my citizens dont want to enter the EU  including

me..EU itself is not a whole as we see the examples in this last

economic crysis..

Another stumbling block is the Turkish occupation of part of cyprus since 1974.

Doug

More than half of the population on island is Turkish..And from 1960 to

1974 many Turkish families are butchered including their babies..

Thats the reason why the Turks on the island create another

republic after the military operation..

Merry christmas

[doog]

Im not sure the Greek Cypriots would agree , however I am not having a go at you Cem.
 I am only stating the facts as seen by the EU
This Repuplic you talk about is only recognized by Turkey and no other Country.

Merry Christmas

Doug