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[Dishevelled Den]

I think the whole episode (from when B.liar went and met Gaddafi,to Browns disappearing act last week)stinks to high heaven of a typical new Lie bore dirty and corrupt deal.I would need very convincing evidence to change my mind.The fact that Mandy met this bloke while he was on holiday makes it an almost certainty in my book.

even though I posted in the previous terms I'm inclined to agree with you, it's par for the course for these incompetents.

[albitz]

I think they use an instructon manual confiscated from some tin pot African dictatorship.

[Dishevelled Den]

I think they use an instructon manual confiscated from some tin pot African dictatorship.

They probably had a hand in writing it

[LJay]

The mockery started when this man was tried, leading to an unsafe conviction.  There was no justice here, but a distortion of it to suit political requirements at the time.

When US personnel are convicted for the murder of 290 Iranians, and the true perpetrators of Lockerbie are convicted then we will have true justice that is honourable.

Now we all know that is never going to happen, so let this (scapegoat) go back to his family for the last time to die "within 3 months".   If you are a Christain you will recognise that the highest power of all, God, will act out true justice to all found guilty of all crimes against humanity.

A man offered up by his own people Ms Z.  The relevance of the convoluted deal done to placate the US in the first instance is largely irrelevant to the central thrust of my comments regarding the effective weight of duly applied judicial decisions.

Why go through such a process, knowing that the facts of the matter were tenuous, to say the least, and pervert the decision of the extraordinary court hearing by rendering its finding in this way.

I suspect that Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi was aware of the depth of this matter and co-operated in the execution of the judicial process.

The Lord might well act in mysterious ways Ms Z, but those on this plane may need a more tangible form of justice.

I think those on both planes have had their justice when entering God's Kingdom   No, it is the relatives that have the understandable problem in finding blood for blood justice.  Unfortunately that will not happen now, and they should look towards their governments to find the political reasons as to why not and what happened in the first instance.

As I think we  have agreed the empire of the USA is on one side, and Iran on the other, with Libya involved, probably very willingly, as they wanted revenge for the attacks on their country by USAF F111's from British bases in 1986.  Libya was no friend of the west / USA / Britain, and would have no doubt had strong connections then with other anti western countries like Iran / Syria / and of course the USSR.

Why this one man was allowed to take the rap when so much of the evidence available was tenuous, probably in any other court not permissible and speculative has always confirmed for me high state involvement, with no doubt MI6 and especially CIA involvement from the start.  This was not a simple act of terrorism that killed the 270+ at Lockerbie, but state acts of war that reaped this revenge attack by alien nations.  It was not an act of one man, but 'soldiers' of an enemy nation, as any bombing act is during a war between states.

I just wish I could say that there will never be another Lockerbie, Strait of Hormuz, or 9/11 airplane 'bombing', but due to the current political situation, how can this be guaranteed?   More innocent lives will be lost in  acts of war, as in the case of Lockerbie

both planes

Forgive me Ms Z, I edited my original remarks from 'this plane' to 'this earthly plane' as I was speaking in the religious sense - sorry for the confusion



 has always confirmed for me high state involvement, with no doubt MI6 and especially CIA involvement from the start.

...both in the conviction and subsequent release of this man - in my view

Kenny MacAskill as the Scottish Cabinet Secretary responsible for Justice was merely the facilitator for these clandestine groups through discrete, but never the less very clear, direction from Whitehall.

The integrity if the Scottish system of government came second to the national interest of the UK in this matter I would suggest.

Just out of curiosity, how can belief in a 'higher plane' have any significance in either incident!
In my mind people are in charge of their own actions and should be accountable in this life and to those they have wronged, not to some unknown entity?
There is no way this man should have been released at this point, whether or not he was correctly convicted is not part of this particular debate.

[albitz]

I completely agree.
I firmly believe it was all about oil/money/corrupt politicians.

[Martin_1962]

Whatever happened - and I am sure the bomber was either set up as a fall guy or a small part of the operation, but keep away from that for now, none of us know either way.

It definately looks like backroom meetings with Meddlesom

[albitz]

As I said inanother thread about this,I believe it likely that he rang up Scotland and told them to let him out.

[Nickbat]

As I said inanother thread about this,I believe it likely that he rang up Scotland and told them to let him out.

It makes a mockery of our legal system. If there were sufficient grounds to believe he was innocent (or, at least not as culpable) then there should have been an appeal to get at the truth. If he was guilty, as the court originally found, he should have served the whole sentence, medical condition notwithstanding. (BTW, has Ronnie Biggs been freed yet?  )

Either way, a court should decide his fate.

Once a politician overrides the legal system, it sets a very dangerous precedent.     

[albitz]

I believe that the reason Jack Straw did a very quick U turn over Biggs was because he was given the nod that the lockerbie bomber was going to be let out and he would look foolish if he kept Biggs in.
As for politicians overiding the judiciary to release convicted terrorists/murderers,just have a look how many (from both persuasions) they let out in Norn Irn.

[Dishevelled Den]

Just out of curiosity, how can belief in a 'higher plane' have any significance in either incident!In my mind people are in charge of their own actions and should be accountable in this life and to those they have wronged, not to some unknown entity?
There is no way this man should have been released at this point, whether or not he was correctly convicted is not part of this particular debate.

...it doesnt Lj.  I made reference in those terms in response to Ms. Z's comment on Christianity.  I agree completely with the remainder of your comments although the safety of his conviction does bear consideration.

[Nickbat]

I believe that the reason Jack Straw did a very quick U turn over Biggs was because he was given the nod that the lockerbie bomber was going to be let out and he would look foolish if he kept Biggs in.
As for politicians overiding the judiciary to release convicted terrorists/murderers,just have a look how many (from both persuasions) they let out in Norn Irn.

Quite so, Albs. 

[Dishevelled Den]

I believe that the reason Jack Straw did a very quick U turn over Biggs was because he was given the nod that the lockerbie bomber was going to be let out and he would look foolish if he kept Biggs in.
As for politicians overiding the judiciary to release convicted terrorists/murderers,just have a look how many (from both persuasions) they let out in Norn Irn.

....that 'hand of history' has a lot to answer for

[Nickbat]

I completely agree.
I firmly believe it was all about oil/money/corrupt politicians.

Funny you should say that, Albs. Read this: 

http://planetgore.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODQ3MDFkODIyYzI2YTk0MTRhZDIyYjI2NjZjNWFkM2U=

[albitz]

Makes very interesting reading Nick.

[albitz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/8197370.stm

Why should anyone show this man any compassion? Why should he be allowed to spend his dying days with his family? His victims weren't allowed the same privilege!

I know one of the first people on the scene that night in Lockerbie and he will never forget it.

Just another example of how feeble, weak and terrified our government is. :-/ :-/

i remember it well - my girlfriend at the time was from a village nearby, her dad was one of te first on the scene and its not something you want to deal with - or talk about BUT this is Scotland - a hopefully tolerant, mature and compassionate country - i was proud of the decision my nation made today - we said basically to all those who want to rule by fear or terror, to all those who want an eye for an eye - we stood up and said no - we're bigger than that 


it wasn't a UK government decision by the way, they abdicated any responsibility (in all likelihood they didnt want to get into an awkward position with the US) legally it was crystal clear and the correct decision - he's going to die in the next few months, which is why its the right decision - i'm glad i live in a country where sense and reason rule over bloodthirst and revenge

In light of all the things which have come to light since,I was wondering if you are still convinced of this viewpoint Bannjaxx ? :-/