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JonArgraig

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PC Help
« on: 11 June 2008, 08:09:39 »
Hi, chaps

Odd one for you all here,

Looking for a way to remotley "cold boot" a PC, with no extra hardware or software at the target PC,

Windows XP based system

Needs to be a cold boot so I can loose power to USB ports, as a "Hot Boot" or restart keeps the 5v feed live.

Looked at disbaling the USB ports but this just kills the COMS as it would seem the 5v feed is hard wired to the Mother board's 5v circuit.

Any idea greatfuly welcome!
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Jimbob

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #1 on: 11 June 2008, 08:18:56 »
talking on demand?

Don't think you can, can schedule a shutdown, but not restart.

some PC bios utils let you automatically start the pc at a certain time....

so IF you could find a utility to talk to the bios, you could set to auto turn in in x minutes, then just shut it down.

To do this I am sure you will need either some extra hardware or software.

Not sure you exact requirements......maybe disabling and reenabling the USB controller in device manager would give you the desired results?
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Dazzler

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #2 on: 11 June 2008, 09:58:57 »
Quote
talking on demand?

Don't think you can, can schedule a shutdown, but not restart.

some PC bios utils let you automatically start the pc at a certain time....

so IF you could find a utility to talk to the bios, you could set to auto turn in in x minutes, then just shut it down.

To do this I am sure you will need either some extra hardware or software.

Not sure you exact requirements......maybe disabling and reenabling the USB controller in device manager would give you the desired results?
What was all that, that just flew over my head ;D ;D
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tunnie

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #3 on: 11 June 2008, 10:12:09 »
you could do wake on LAN


This means the PC will boot as soon as it gets network activity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake-on-LAN
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Leomas

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #4 on: 11 June 2008, 10:51:24 »
Not sure that wake-on-LAN would power down far enough to take the voltage off the USB ports, plus setting something up to force the wakeup will add a lot of complexity to ensure it doesn't just go back to sleep
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jereboam

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #5 on: 11 June 2008, 12:06:55 »
Surely if you power it down so far that it's virtually unplugged, there isn't anyway you are going to be able to boot it up remotely?

If the PC is shut down, the enabled/disabled status of the USB port is irrelevant, because there's no OS to look at it.  You've got to have power or you can't turn it on, and if you've got power, your USB will be live.  There may be a hardware solution with extra kit, or maybe there are some systems that do allow this, but I don't think yer "bog standard" PC can be made to do it.  

Why do you need to shut down the USB ports anyway?  If it's to power down connected equipment, I would have thought that anything drawing enough current worry about would have it's own power source which isn't going to be shut down when the PC shuts down.  (Unless you PSU has a switched periperal socket - haven't seen one of those for years.)

There may possibly be a remote controlled UPS on the market - I'm sure I've seen one somewhere.  That may be a solution.  
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tunnie

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #6 on: 11 June 2008, 16:06:49 »
Quote
Surely if you power it down so far that it's virtually unplugged, there isn't anyway you are going to be able to boot it up remotely?

If the PC is shut down, the enabled/disabled status of the USB port is irrelevant, because there's no OS to look at it.  You've got to have power or you can't turn it on, and if you've got power, your USB will be live.  There may be a hardware solution with extra kit, or maybe there are some systems that do allow this, but I don't think yer "bog standard" PC can be made to do it.  

Why do you need to shut down the USB ports anyway?  If it's to power down connected equipment, I would have thought that anything drawing enough current worry about would have it's own power source which isn't going to be shut down when the PC shuts down.  (Unless you PSU has a switched periperal socket - haven't seen one of those for years.)

There may possibly be a remote controlled UPS on the market - I'm sure I've seen one somewhere.  That may be a solution.  


Ohh yes there is.

If a PC is completley powered off, and you have an external hard drive attached.

If you try and connect to it via other machine... eg..

\\switchedoffpcname\remotedrive

or

\\192.168.2.5\f           (only good if your not using DHCP)

The PC will boot from cold, when it recivies network link activity on a RJ45 cable..

**you must have wake-on-lan enabled though, and have a motherboard & network card that supports this, but most these days do, at the school i worked at 2 years ago, with 5 year old machines had this ability.
« Last Edit: 11 June 2008, 16:08:14 by tunnie »
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jereboam

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #7 on: 11 June 2008, 16:26:27 »
Quote
Quote
Surely if you power it down so far that it's virtually unplugged, there isn't anyway you are going to be able to boot it up remotely?

 


Ohh yes there is.

If a PC is completley powered off, and you have an external hard drive attached.


Sorry, if you have the mains lead plugged into a socket that's turned on, you've got power to the USB ports.  If you turn the mains off, it won't wake-up on LAN.  

It won't wake up for the Archangel Gabriel and the Last Trump. :)
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tunnie

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #8 on: 11 June 2008, 16:35:13 »
Quote
Quote
Quote
Surely if you power it down so far that it's virtually unplugged, there isn't anyway you are going to be able to boot it up remotely?

 


Ohh yes there is.

If a PC is completley powered off, and you have an external hard drive attached.


Sorry, if you have the mains lead plugged into a socket that's turned on, you've got power to the USB ports.  If you turn the mains off, it won't wake-up on LAN.  

It won't wake up for the Archangel Gabriel and the Last Trump. :)

Ah but you said virtually unplugged.

If its unplugged then yes, sod all you can do, but if its plugged in, with switch on you can.
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Elite Pete

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #9 on: 11 June 2008, 16:37:49 »
I understood the Hi chaps bit  :D
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tunnie

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #10 on: 11 June 2008, 16:38:41 »
Quote
I understood the Hi chaps bit  :D

Your getting bette Pete  :y
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JonArgraig

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #11 on: 11 June 2008, 17:42:16 »
The wake on lan idea has been tried but for various security & networking issues it's not viable for some 60% of our estate,

Just looking for a way to power the buggers down and back up again with having a human touch out in the field
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TheBoy

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #12 on: 11 June 2008, 18:33:30 »
Quote
Quote
Surely if you power it down so far that it's virtually unplugged, there isn't anyway you are going to be able to boot it up remotely?

If the PC is shut down, the enabled/disabled status of the USB port is irrelevant, because there's no OS to look at it.  You've got to have power or you can't turn it on, and if you've got power, your USB will be live.  There may be a hardware solution with extra kit, or maybe there are some systems that do allow this, but I don't think yer "bog standard" PC can be made to do it.  

Why do you need to shut down the USB ports anyway?  If it's to power down connected equipment, I would have thought that anything drawing enough current worry about would have it's own power source which isn't going to be shut down when the PC shuts down.  (Unless you PSU has a switched periperal socket - haven't seen one of those for years.)

There may possibly be a remote controlled UPS on the market - I'm sure I've seen one somewhere.  That may be a solution.  


Ohh yes there is.

If a PC is completley powered off, and you have an external hard drive attached.

If you try and connect to it via other machine... eg..

\\switchedoffpcname\remotedrive

or

\\192.168.2.5\f           (only good if your not using DHCP)

The PC will boot from cold, when it recivies network link activity on a RJ45 cable..

**you must have wake-on-lan enabled though, and have a motherboard & network card that supports this, but most these days do, at the school i worked at 2 years ago, with 5 year old machines had this ability.
Tunnie - the deepest sleep state that wol can do is s5, assuming bios support and hardware support (modern PCs should have both).
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TheBoy

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #13 on: 11 June 2008, 18:35:50 »
Quote
The wake on lan idea has been tried but for various security & networking issues it's not viable for some 60% of our estate,

Just looking for a way to power the buggers down and back up again with having a human touch out in the field
We have similar issues on our servers. The only reliable methods are Lights Out type mamangement hardware, such as iLO or RIBLOE (HP), or ALOM/ILOM (Sun)
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JonArgraig

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Re: PC Help
« Reply #14 on: 12 June 2008, 22:09:53 »
Been and had a look at some of the hardware today...

the USB device we needed to kill off has been modified to take a 2nd 5v feed from a transformer mounted on the power rails... not in our plans we had to work from :(

So it really does need a human touch to throw the power switch on the wall.

Thanks any way guys
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