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[cem_devecioglu]

Given some of the comments above ... some food for thought ....


"From 1964 to 1994, all British Prime Ministers and Leaders of the Opposition, whether Labour or Conservative, had been educated at state schools, with the sole exception of Labour Leader Michael Foot.

Labour Party leaders Clement Attlee, Hugh Gaitskell, Michael Foot and Tony Blair were educated at independent schools, but the former Prime Minister, Gordon Brown and current Labour party leader Ed Miliband, attended a state school.

Whilst the current Conservative leader and Prime Minister, David Cameron was educated at Eton (and the Conservatives Chancellor George Osborne attended St Paul's School), all Conservative leaders from 1965 to 2005 were educated at state schools, including former prime ministers Ted Heath, Margaret Thatcher, and John Major.

With the exception of Charles Kennedy, all other past leaders of the Liberal Democrat party, including David Steel, Paddy Ashdown, and Menzies Campbell, were educated at fee-paying schools. Without precedent, both main candidates in the 2007 election for the leadership of the Liberal Democrats -- Nick Clegg and Chris Huhne -- were educated at the same independent school, Westminster School."

So the Lib-dems aren't quite as Lib as you might think ...

good info Entwood.. 

however although seems unrelated , in every country there is a blackbook that the prime ministers , presidents must read and strictly follow :-/

[Banjax]

interesting and quite surprising Entwood 

[Dishevelled Den]

When talking about blame (in relation to the present financial/social state of this country) we do tend to think of politicians and of governments as being justifiable fodder for our ire but what of us - are we without blame in any measure?

Many people in this country have no interest in politics and when a number of individuals do drag their arses into a polling station they toe the partisan/tribal line with monotonous regularity in many cases.

We reap what we sow in terms of the quality of those whom we elect as public representatives. We levy no realistic sanction when they misbehave, we are disinclined to challenge them on points of concern and we walk away when asked to consider what can be done to alleviate any issues of dissatisfaction.

When apportioning blame to Thatcher, Major, Blair or Brown (to name but a few leaders) we should not forget about the legions of those who exploited the system for their own ends, the stone age unions that ripped the heart out of industry, the lazy unproductive workers who preferred to do anything but work, the leaders of industry more concerned with the bottom line than the integrity of their business, those who wanted to make money at any cost - the list can go on and on.

We should also take a long hard look at our own individual behaviour.  In terms of the financial situation we now presently face, many of us are as guilty as those in the financial sector by exploiting that cheap credit for our own purposes.

No, in my view this country is in serious difficulty, not only as a result of questionable policy as formulated by successive governments more inclined to party politics than governing the nation, but also from a population more interested in the make believe world of any activity that is removed from the practical reality of everyday life. 

[Vamps]

When talking about blame (in relation to the present financial/social state of this country) we do tend to think of politicians and of governments as being justifiable fodder for our ire but what of us - are we without blame in any measure?

Many people in this country have no interest in politics and when a number of individuals do drag their arses into a polling station they toe the partisan/tribal line with monotonous regularity in many cases.

We reap what we sow in terms of the quality of those whom we elect as public representatives. We levy no realistic sanction when they misbehave, we are disinclined to challenge them on points of concern and we walk away when asked to consider what can be done to alleviate any issues of dissatisfaction.

When apportioning blame to Thatcher, Major, Blair or Brown (to name but a few leaders) we should not forget about the legions of those who exploited the system for their own ends, the stone age unions that ripped the heart out of industry, the lazy unproductive workers who preferred to do anything but work, the leaders of industry more concerned with the bottom line than the integrity of their business, those who wanted to make money at any cost - the list can go on and on.

We should also take a long hard look at our own individual behaviour.  In terms of the financial situation we now presently face, many of us are as guilty as those in the financial sector by exploiting that cheap credit for our own purposes.

No, in my view this country is in serious difficulty, not only as a result of questionable policy as formulated by successive governments more inclined to party politics than governing the nation, but also from a population more interested in the make believe world of any activity that is removed from the practical reality of everyday life. 

  Did you google that? ....

[cem_devecioglu]

When talking about blame (in relation to the present financial/social state of this country) we do tend to think of politicians and of governments as being justifiable fodder for our ire but what of us - are we without blame in any measure?

Many people in this country have no interest in politics and when a number of individuals do drag their arses into a polling station they toe the partisan/tribal line with monotonous regularity in many cases.

We reap what we sow in terms of the quality of those whom we elect as public representatives. We levy no realistic sanction when they misbehave, we are disinclined to challenge them on points of concern and we walk away when asked to consider what can be done to alleviate any issues of dissatisfaction.

When apportioning blame to Thatcher, Major, Blair or Brown (to name but a few leaders) we should not forget about the legions of those who exploited the system for their own ends, the stone age unions that ripped the heart out of industry, the lazy unproductive workers who preferred to do anything but work, the leaders of industry more concerned with the bottom line than the integrity of their business, those who wanted to make money at any cost - the list can go on and on.

We should also take a long hard look at our own individual behaviour.  In terms of the financial situation we now presently face, many of us are as guilty as those in the financial sector by exploiting that cheap credit for our own purposes.

No, in my view this country is in serious difficulty, not only as a result of questionable policy as formulated by successive governments more inclined to party politics than governing the nation, but also from a population more interested in the make believe world of any activity that is removed from the practical reality of everyday life. 

 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The posts on this thread have been some of the best I have seen on the OOF, with great analysis of what is, what is now, and how we got there in our society, along with the rest of the financial and political world.

However until we look at working through alternatives and actually do something about it nothing will alter, which perhaps is the problem. With so many of the population uninterested in what happens within politics (as ZL correctly points out in his excellent last post), until it affects them, we have a problem.  We need solutions though, and radical action, or we will change nothing and we just carry on as we are!

I find it extremely interesting how my various posts that strongly intimate an alternative system are not raising many comments.  Are they purely being ignored because they are too radical, and seem so hard to achieve?  Are they being considered as too far fetched, or just plainly stupid?  Have they gone beyond what most on here are prepared to /  can  / understand?

I am interested to know, as it could, and is currently, telling me that as a nation we are prepared to talk about all the ills of the system, but are not prepared to go 'too deep' to finally resolve the issue.  Remember everything we have as common citizens in terms of rights and freedom now are due to individuals and groups stepping forward and taking the plunge to fight the contemporary establishment.

Is this what we are lacking now?  Have our rights and freedoms met all expectations to the extent that there is no stomach for a good political fight? Are we simply too comfortable with our lot?  It is very sad if the Great British public have mostly arrived at this stage! Nothing will radically change if we have no collective will to alter what is.

[Banjax]

I took the financial collapse 2 years ago as a warning that our safe, comfortable and stable life in the west is built on smoke and mirrors, beneficial only to a relatively small number at the top - essentially we're all part of a giant ponzi scheme - every loan, mortgage, overdraft, credit card we have is digital numbers on a computer screen - theres nothing tangible behind it - lessons arent being learnt and while we're far from social collapse here other countries with seemingly stable regimes are now crumbling Greece, Tunisia now Egypt - people are happy if they have jobs to put a roof over their head and can feed their families - take that away through no fault of the populace and the house of cards collapses in unrest. Bankers are getting away scot-free and the targets seem to be politicians and governments, truth is, no matter how odious or corrupt a regime - everyone, including who we think of as our rulers pay banks enormous interest payments for, essentially nothing. The sooner we wake up to this con the better - but if we get rid of a few corrupt leaders at the same time then good 

[cem_devecioglu]

The posts on this thread have been some of the best I have seen on the OOF, with great analysis of what is, what is now, and how we got there in our society, along with the rest of the financial and political world.

However until we look at working through alternatives and actually do something about it nothing will alter, which perhaps is the problem. With so many of the population uninterested in what happens within politics (as ZL correctly points out in his excellent last post), until it affects them, we have a problem.  We need solutions though, and radical action, or we will change nothing and we just carry on as we are!

I find it extremely interesting how my various posts that strongly intimate an alternative system are not raising many comments.  Are they purely being ignored because they are too radical, and seem so hard to achieve?  Are they being considered as too far fetched, or just plainly stupid?  Have they gone beyond what most on here are prepared to /  can  / understand?

I am interested to know, as it could, and is currently, telling me that as a nation we are prepared to talk about all the ills of the system, but are not prepared to go 'too deep' to finally resolve the issue.  Remember everything we have as common citizens in terms of rights and freedom now are due to individuals and groups stepping forward and taking the plunge to fight the contemporary establishment.

Is this what we are lacking now?  Have our rights and freedoms met all expectations to the extent that there is no stomach for a good political fight? Are we simply too comfortable with our lot?  It is very sad if the Great British public have mostly arrived at this stage! Nothing will radically change if we have no collective will to alter what is.

Wise words Lizzie

[cem_devecioglu]

I took the financial collapse 2 years ago as a warning that our safe, comfortable and stable life in the west is built on smoke and mirrors, beneficial only to a relatively small number at the top

smoke and mirrors.. if we think in a short term , no.. but on the long term yes.. world production is shifting to east where labour is unbelievably cheap..

and this production slowly start to show its effects..

- essentially we're all part of a giant ponzi scheme - every loan, mortgage, overdraft, credit card we have is digital numbers on a computer screen - theres nothing tangible behind it - lessons arent being learnt and while we're far from social collapse here other countries with seemingly stable regimes are now crumbling Greece, Tunisia now Egypt - people are happy if they have jobs to put a roof over their head and can feed their families - take that away through no fault of the populace and the house of cards collapses in unrest. Bankers are getting away scot-free and the targets seem to be politicians and governments, truth is, no matter how odious or corrupt a regime - everyone, including who we think of as our rulers pay banks enormous interest payments for, essentially nothing. The sooner we wake up to this con the better - but if we get rid of a few corrupt leaders at the same time then good 

Banjax, as you know problem is inside the system ..
I'm afraid getting rid of those corrupt leaders will only delay the inevitable.. West for long time is spending its historical treasure..  And despite all power shows and controlling efforts, overall  world resources and production cant continoue to feed the west at the same level and one final note I dont think east also have intention to do that..