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[STMO123]

It's a problem Nick. More of a problem than most people realise. I think where we need to start is to recognise that we can't treat these young people as 'kids' any more. They will not 'respect' teachers until teachers 'respect' them. This idea is alien to a lot of teaching staff (esp older ones) as it goes against everything they have ever known. The world is changing at a breathtaking speed and the need to keep up with the prevailing culture has never been more important.
Now, I know that a lot of people will say that they need a bloody good hiding/stint in borstal etc. but that just wouldn't work. These 'kids' live a very adult life outside of school and cannot be expected to change as soon as they walk through the school gates.
It's going to be really hard to get back some sort of equalibrium in todays secondary schools, but we must try or, I'm afraid, it's the good old american way for us all.

Steve.

[Admin]

Believe me, Monday is a morning they will remember!

Amen to that!  

[Nickbat]

Fin,

There a good schools and bad schools. Fact of life.

I don't want to say this, but whatever happens, his future at the current school could well be difficult for him. Being studious and good at piano, karate etc. makes him a natural target for the no-hopers and other scumbags. It's a good case against comprehensive education, I'm afraid.

I would start looking at alternative schools. If he is as talented at the piano as you say (and I am sure he is), consider a school that specialises in music. My own comprehensive school down here does (partial selection on music ability) and there is also the private Purcell School in Watford which specialises in music. Obviously, these are of no use to you, but serve as examples. I suspect that a little trawling around will find similar opportunities up there.

I suspect, if you handle the situation well and are a bit lucky too, little Fin will not get a criminal record. Being attacked by 20 entitles anyone to use self-defence, I would have thought. However, it is, in my opinion, VITAL that you get witnesses prepared to stand up and be counted. BTW, does the school have CCTV? We do in ours and it's a good system that records to HDD and archives for at least a week.

Good luck mate!  

...and keep us posted.

[STMO123]

For what it's worth Fin, I've just asked the headteacher for her opinion and she concurs with Nick. It sticks in your gullet, I know, but it's probably better for your lad.

But, don't go quietly, OFSTED are contactable, if you try hard enough, and can contact the school directly if it is considered necessary. That REALLY hurts.

[Nickbat]

It's a problem Nick. More of a problem than most people realise. I think where we need to start is to recognise that we can't treat these young people as 'kids' any more. They will not 'respect' teachers until teachers 'respect' them. This idea is alien to a lot of teaching staff (esp older ones) as it goes against everything they have ever known. The world is changing at a breathtaking speed and the need to keep up with the prevailing culture has never been more important.
Now, I know that a lot of people will say that they need a bloody good hiding/stint in borstal etc. but that just wouldn't work. These 'kids' live a very adult life outside of school and cannot be expected to change as soon as they walk through the school gates.
It's going to be really hard to get back some sort of equalibrium in todays secondary schools, but we must try or, I'm afraid, it's the good old american way for us all.

Steve.

Steve,
Not sure, I totally agree. I think, and I know I'm in a minority here, that this endless pandering to the youth has given them, as a group, a feeling of superiority - and it is now payback time for us. Yes, we can listen to them, but I defy anyone to tell me that anyone under 18 has the right to think that their views are more valid merely because they are young. They may well know a lot more about technological issues than we ever did at their age (the technology, of course was not there, then) and they may well reach sexual maturity earlier, but they are not, IMHO, that much more emotionally mature than in those days gone by. It's a cover-up. For example, Year 11s and 12s will go on about how "green" they are in their environmental studies, and yet they will litter, spit and drive like morons as if they have no responsibility at all. No, they are not true adults. Teachers, generally, are more adult than them and should command the greater respect for that.

Good discussion, though, mate!  

Nick  

[STMO123]

It's a problem Nick. More of a problem than most people realise. I think where we need to start is to recognise that we can't treat these young people as 'kids' any more. They will not 'respect' teachers until teachers 'respect' them. This idea is alien to a lot of teaching staff (esp older ones) as it goes against everything they have ever known. The world is changing at a breathtaking speed and the need to keep up with the prevailing culture has never been more important.
Now, I know that a lot of people will say that they need a bloody good hiding/stint in borstal etc. but that just wouldn't work. These 'kids' live a very adult life outside of school and cannot be expected to change as soon as they walk through the school gates.
It's going to be really hard to get back some sort of equalibrium in todays secondary schools, but we must try or, I'm afraid, it's the good old american way for us all.

Steve.

Steve,
Not sure, I totally agree. I think, and I know I'm in a minority here, that this endless pandering to the youth has given them, as a group, a feeling of superiority - and it is now payback time for us. Yes, we can listen to them, but I defy anyone to tell me that anyone under 18 has the right to think that their views are more valid merely because they are young. They may well know a lot more about technological issues than we ever did at their age (the technology, of course was not there, then) and they may well reach sexual maturity earlier, but they are not, IMHO, that much more emotionally mature than in those days gone by. It's a cover-up. For example, Year 11s and 12s will go on about how "green" they are in their environmental studies, and yet they will litter, spit and drive like morons as if they have no responsibility at all. No, they are not true adults. Teachers, generally, are more adult than them and should command the greater respect for that.

Good discussion, though, mate!  

Nick  

Hmmm.....trouble is, as I see it, it will only work in two ways...mutual respect or fear factor, and I think we've well lost the fear factor. The government, in it's wisdom, has gradually eroded all of  the sanctions which a teacher had at his/her disposal, and the kids know it.
I think it's a lot to do with how we ALL look at professionals these days. Doctors, teachers, all professionals have been made accountable, in a very public way. The days of us accepting their word as law are long gone, and I really can't make up my mind if that's a good thing or not.
The current way of thinking, as forwarded by numerous agencies, is one of equality. Racial, sexual, age, religion. You cant, by law, be biased against older people. Perhaps kids think that applies the other way as well

[STMO123]

Anyway, my brain hurts now. G'night.

[Nickbat]

Anyway, my brain hurts now. G'night.

Mine too.

G'night, Steve!

[stuart30]

I must make it crystal clear, taht my son was attacked by 20 kids ina  mob. He is resented for being talented (been on TV before etc). He is also a black belt in karate, and after his arm was broken he had no choice than to defend himsef. He smacked the culprit very well indeed, and it worked. I am also aware that as a response to us making a formal allegation of ABH, my son will be arrested  in a counter allegation of common assault. What pisses me off is that the police will take that seriously. If we push this my son could effectively get a criminal record. So, WHEN they arrest him, we are having formal representation and I will be informing the press of that as and when it occurs.

Ronnie dont take this the wrong way but why would 20 kids attack your boy...i know you say he"s resented but what caused the trouble to kick off in the first place.

Also and i dont wish to be overly personal but was his race called into question and why.

As for calling in the press it maybe worth waiting to hear the other parties side of events (if you havent already of course).

[JamesV6CDX]

Less than 8 hours to go  :-/

I wouldn't want to be in the Head's shoes if he doesn't co-operate with Fin...