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[CaptainZok]

Personally, I think its all absolute rowlocks....  A PolCorrect world going to hell in a handcart.....

Once the UK payscale etc balance flattens out, do we then have to consider the next influx of folks from whichever country sees the UK as a cash cow and we then have to learn that language as well?  

Given the multicultural history of the likes of the US, how many 'good ole boy' cops or troopers or others in public posts or positions have had to (or will have any intention of) brushing up on their German or French or Russian or Spanish or Lituanian or Polish or whatever language their forebears had?  Or Bangladeshi, Pakistani, African or (non) native American of the current crop?  

Also, how many speak the dialects etc of their native Indians?  Probably about as many Brits who speak Welsh or Gaelic!!

Whole thing is a crock of poo.......  

[/rant]  

Guess your not bothering to learn Polish then B  

D - your quite correct....  I know enough Anglo Saxon and, combining suitable phrases of choice and appropriate hand actions, am able to make myself understood with ample sufficiency to cleave across any language barrier, be it national, international and, I would suggest, intergalactic, if required......  

Have you taught that mate of yours to speak bulgarian yet?

[bertiecbx550]

did you read about the woman who was claiming all the benefits she could even though she was in poland and her hubby was working here? she was actually able to leave her hubby wages alone in a savings account cause the benefits were paying for all their living expenses and they still had money left over!!! It seems that the goverment are legally obliged under european law to do this for them as much as us...incredible

[Ken T]

Personally, I think its all absolute rowlocks....  A PolCorrect world going to hell in a handcart.....

Once the UK payscale etc balance flattens out, do we then have to consider the next influx of folks from whichever country sees the UK as a cash cow and we then have to learn that language as well?  

Given the multicultural history of the likes of the US, how many 'good ole boy' cops or troopers or others in public posts or positions have had to (or will have any intention of) brushing up on their German or French or Russian or Spanish or Lituanian or Polish or whatever language their forebears had?  Or Bangladeshi, Pakistani, African or (non) native American of the current crop?  

Also, how many speak the dialects etc of their native Indians?  Probably about as many Brits who speak Welsh or Gaelic!!

Whole thing is a crock of poo.......  

[/rant]  

Guess your not bothering to learn Polish then B  

D - your quite correct....  I know enough Anglo Saxon and, combining suitable phrases of choice and appropriate hand actions, am able to make myself understood with ample sufficiency to cleave across any language barrier, be it national, international and, I would suggest, intergalactic, if required......  

Hmm, does this mean that the fingers, or is it just one finger, is an internationally accepted sign of disproval ?, and are you likely to get locked up when using it ?.

I find it a bit funny the way that things get interpreted in different ways as time goes by. The (in)famous G*llyw*g on Robertson's jam was perfectly innocent in its day. Interesting enough it used to be that a Chinese person who addopted western ways, eg shirt and tie, and drinking pink gins etc, was known as a "Westernised Oriental Gentleman", but if you use the initials in public, you are almost certain to get banged up for a long time. The educated side of the world is going crazy with this political correctness, and I'll bet the other lot, either think we are all stupid, or can't believe their luck.

Och, what the hell,
Ken

[hotel21]

Personally, I think its all absolute rowlocks....  A PolCorrect world going to hell in a handcart.....

Once the UK payscale etc balance flattens out, do we then have to consider the next influx of folks from whichever country sees the UK as a cash cow and we then have to learn that language as well?  

Given the multicultural history of the likes of the US, how many 'good ole boy' cops or troopers or others in public posts or positions have had to (or will have any intention of) brushing up on their German or French or Russian or Spanish or Lituanian or Polish or whatever language their forebears had?  Or Bangladeshi, Pakistani, African or (non) native American of the current crop?  

Also, how many speak the dialects etc of their native Indians?  Probably about as many Brits who speak Welsh or Gaelic!!

Whole thing is a crock of poo.......  

[/rant]  

Guess your not bothering to learn Polish then B  

D - your quite correct....  I know enough Anglo Saxon and, combining suitable phrases of choice and appropriate hand actions, am able to make myself understood with ample sufficiency to cleave across any language barrier, be it national, international and, I would suggest, intergalactic, if required......  

Hmm, does this mean that the fingers, or is it just one finger, is an internationally accepted sign of disproval ?, and are you likely to get locked up when using it ?.

I find it a bit funny the way that things get interpreted in different ways as time goes by. The (in)famous G*llyw*g on Robertson's jam was perfectly innocent in its day. Interesting enough it used to be that a Chinese person who addopted western ways, eg shirt and tie, and drinking pink gins etc, was known as a "Westernised Oriental Gentleman", but if you use the initials in public, you are almost certain to get banged up for a long time. The educated side of the world is going crazy with this political correctness, and I'll bet the other lot, either think we are all stupid, or can't believe their luck.

Och, what the hell,
Ken

It was intended that I use both hands.....  Such as when conversing with foreign lorry drivers, over their hours etc, who are told to park up and sleep and other similar situations.......
 
Point to tacho, wagged finger showing naughty with 'tutt, tutt' noises, hands together on side of tilted head to show sleep, fingers to count how many hours, single finger to show camera watching waggon parked in layup spot, wrists clasped together to signify handcuffs and one international word - Jail/Gaol.....
 
Never failed me yet...    

[Andy B]

....../Gaol.....
 
...    

Now ..THAT's a word you don't come across very often!

[amigov6]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here instead of going with the flow. Do'nt blame the immigrant workers, blame the sorry state of our economy & our limp wristed, too pussy to stand up for itself government who admit they have no idea how many foriegn workers are here. We have 3 Polish drivers & nothing is too much trouble for them, these lads graft. I've seen one after a 13/14hr. day get back to the yard, park outside the workshop & weld a loose loadbar on the side of his trailer himself when most English drivers(myself included) would've left it for a fitter to do. They work on the land for p*ss poor money 'coz we wo'nt do it. Yes some of them need kicking into touch but so do many English workers.
   In my first hand experience these lads are friendly good hearted people getting their noses to the grindstone to provide for thier families in any way they can. As i said earlier there's plenty of English undesirables, so before you have a go think first.

[hotel21]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here instead of going with the flow. Do'nt blame the immigrant workers, blame the sorry state of our economy & our limp wristed, too pussy to stand up for itself government who admit they have no idea how many foriegn workers are here. We have 3 Polish drivers & nothing is too much trouble for them, these lads graft. I've seen one after a 13/14hr. day get back to the yard, park outside the workshop & weld a loose loadbar on the side of his trailer himself when most English drivers(myself included) would've left it for a fitter to do. They work on the land for p*ss poor money 'coz we wo'nt do it. Yes some of them need kicking into touch but so do many English workers.
   In my first hand experience these lads are friendly good hearted people getting their noses to the grindstone to provide for thier families in any way they can. As i said earlier there's plenty of English undesirables, so before you have a go think first.

Guy - no probs with your comments as to wanting to work, nose to grindstone etc.....  

Going slightly off topic, however.....

The only way to be fair, especially in 'traffic' type circles is to nick anyone, irrespective of colour, creed or ethnic background, if they flount the law.  Thats how the 'black rats' got so named - black rats are the only species, apparently, who will eat their own kind......  (ducking now to avoid those throwers of pelters who will pounce on cops who got 'let off' of some incident or another.....  )  

As to drivers etc, if the hours are excessive, you get captured.....  Simple and straightforward.  Drivers hours do not discriminate, nor does sleep, and neither should Trafpol or similar.  Not looking for a keyboard fight, but would you class the roadside repair from your Polish compadre as 'other work' or a rest period???  How would you view it if he flattened you on the way out the lorry park as you walked to the crapper at 5am still half asleep looking for an early start 'cos he spend 95% of the night repairing his truck rather than kip??  The rules are Euro rules and Polski is also required to follow the same hours etc and, I would suggest, he knows them just as well as you do....  

[amigov6]

 :)Plenty of UK drivers posing the same risk & i accept it's not easy for you to deal with, the consequences can be dire to say the least. I pass the messes you guys have to deal with & it's shocking to the least. I'm not under pressure to run bent but many large recognized UK firms push thier drivers past the limit. Just wanted to stop the "lets have a pop @ the Poles" thread because although they're rough & ready we ca'nt fault thier work ethic.
     Sleep now but take care, sure we'll meet up in the summer. G.

[hotel21]

G - yup, fair play to whosoever wants to work.  Just do it within the guidelines and rules.

My initial response was regarding learning another language other than that spoken within the UK.  If a migrant wants to work within the UK rules/infrastructure, then learn basic communication of the country - English!  

The 'when in Rome' analogy specifically applies.  If I'm on a foreign holiday, I make the effort to learn basic phrases, even if only enough to get a few beers in or order a meal or say please and thank you - common courteseys.....

If I was to try to earn a full time living there, you can bet I would be pulling the stops out and learning the language, if for no other reason than to ensure I was not getting ripped off by my employer!

Looking forward to discussing same over a beer (or curry) or two....  

[Ken T]

A couple of points. Firstly, is this chap who welded up the load bars any good at welding?. I don't know the function or location of a loadbar, but if it fell off at 56mph on the M6 I would not want to be behind him. I have just carried 2 trestles up from Leicester on my roof rack. Instead of one piece of rope I used 3 seperately tied off pieces, so if one failed there are another 2 to go.  A fitter is there because he is trained to do it, and has been checked and his work is verifyably good, your polish driver hasn't. I had a near miss because a plasterboard lifting machine I have failed, and a half sheet of plasterboard came tumbling down. Fortunately, I noticed that the bolt holding the brake assy had bent, and so got out of the way in time. The cause ?. Crap welding, a boss welded to a plate with 2 small "splats" instead of a proper shamfered boss and a full round penetration weld. Also the design is bad, they could have designed in a safety margin but chose not to. This is the trouble with foreign stuff, it is ALWAYS cheaply made, and as a result fails soon, sometimes hurting people as a result.

I have a slight thing about Poles, I used to work repairing Sky boxes, my Ltd Co got £11.50 per hour. The Poles moved in and the rates are now £8.50. I can't afford to drive there to work now. However that's just economics, at my current work, there are several polish guys who are hard working, bring you cups of water, and are generally friendly. Great, easy to work with, and I am sure I couldn't speak Polish as well as they speak english. That's the thing, you can dislike a certain race for what they do as a nation, but get on well with them one to one. I dislike China because of their actions in taking over Tibet and trying to get rid of the population by various means, but this is not just cause to go out and bomb the local Chinky.  

I think the world is going thro a big change, things will balance out over the world, perhaps we will still have a migrant community, but it will move to other countries as required. Where Britian, who has destroyed its Production and Engineering ability, will end up in all this doesn't look nice.

Ken

[Golfbuddy]

I'm glad to see this thread is taking a bit more of a tolerant tone.

It's not the fault of the Poles if the economic benefits of working in the UK are better than in Poland. I would be prepared to bet that they don't leave their homes and families for a laugh.

The problem lies fairly and squarly with us and our successive governments. We have contributed to the economic situation in this country. We all want higher wages and shorter working hours, thousands of British workers have taken industrial action to ensure that they got it, remember the coal miners?, Steel workers? Car workers? Ship builders? Postal workers? etc etc etc.

The government, which we voted in, have sold us down the river with the EEC and it's subsequent incarnations to the point where we have a 'free' labour market in the European Union.

So, is it any surprise that we are now inundated with economic migrants who are prepared to work longer hours for lower wages than most Brits are prepared to work for? If it wasn't for them our goods and services would be even more uncompetitve than they are and our exports would be lower.

I'm afraid that we have made our bed and we now have to lie in it. Don't blame the Poles or the Chechs or any of the other people who are prepared to 'get on their bikes and look for work', they are just taking the opportunities that are there for them.

I thank you.  

[amigov6]

 :)That last post pretty much sums it up. Some of my jobs involve taking an empty container to an ex manufacturing firm whose sadly gone under to shift the machinery. Some of these places are in our big towns Birmingham etc. Big proud brick built buildings that had been going for 100+ yrs. I've walked round empty shop floors, canteens, offices & it's thought provoking. You can see where 2 or 3 generations worked but know you're one of the last to walk in there before it gets levelled to build yet another retail park, carpets, toys, sofas, carveries etc. All our towns are in danger of losing their identities because we can no longer manufacture economically. Not politically minded i do'nt know how we got into this mess but can see it happening & it's a shame we're losing our industry.
   Apologies to all if i got on my high horse!!!!!!!!!! :-/