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[Nickbat]

As Nigel points out, Italy has to pay 20% of the bailout fund given to Spain and it will receive 3% interest. Unfortunately, to pay Spain, it needs to borrow at 6-7%.

The economics of the mad house.

Give it some welly, Nigel! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TN_1mF-3JTI

[cem_devecioglu]

may be we will be next.. Turkish banks have large investments in Spain banks as I see in news

[Varche]

We are witnessing Europe committing economic suicide. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

As Nigel points out, Italy has to pay 20% of the bailout fund given to Spain and it will receive 3% interest. Unfortunately, to pay Spain, it needs to borrow at 6-7%.

The economics of the mad house.

Give it some welly, Nigel! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TN_1mF-3JTI

Not a fan of Farage......but perhaps, just perhaps, Mr Gobby has a point.

[albitz]

He has had a point for years,but all the trendy progressive lefties laughed at him,called him a little Englander etc.
Now its starting to make sense to almost everyone who hasnt got a vested interest in trying to ensure the lunacy continues,and even they are really struggling to deny the blatantly obvious facts.
Nige for PM.

[Dishevelled Den]

He has had a point for years,but all the trendy progressive lefties laughed at him,called him a little Englander etc.
Now its starting to make sense to almost everyone who hasnt got a vested interest in trying to ensure the lunacy continues,and even they are really struggling to deny the blatantly obvious facts.
Nige for PM.

Nige for PM

Ooh I couldn't walk with you on that one son - even if it does attract a measure of disapproval from that old Nickbat one.

[Nickbat]

He has had a point for years,but all the trendy progressive lefties laughed at him,called him a little Englander etc.
Now its starting to make sense to almost everyone who hasnt got a vested interest in trying to ensure the lunacy continues,and even they are really struggling to deny the blatantly obvious facts.
Nige for PM.

Nige for PM

Ooh I couldn't walk with you on that one son - even if it does attract a measure of disapproval from that old Nickbat one.

OK, Den, I'll call you on that one. Who would YOU suggest as our next PM? 

[Rods2]

Jeremy Clarkson of course, it will take him 6 minutes to solve the Euro crisis.

3 minutes to work out how the codes work and another 3 minutes to impact. 

[Dishevelled Den]

He has had a point for years,but all the trendy progressive lefties laughed at him,called him a little Englander etc.
Now its starting to make sense to almost everyone who hasnt got a vested interest in trying to ensure the lunacy continues,and even they are really struggling to deny the blatantly obvious facts.
Nige for PM.

Nige for PM

Ooh I couldn't walk with you on that one son - even if it does attract a measure of disapproval from that old Nickbat one.

OK, Den, I'll call you on that one. Who would YOU suggest as our next PM? 

Certainly not Nige me old China.

Your point is well made however and I think it strikes to the heart of the problem we face in this country.

For a national party with members drawn from the four corners of the country, having the appeal to connect with a wide cross section of the voting public and able to offer a sound reasoned alternative to what we presently have, it will be crucial for that party to led by an individual with all the qualities seldom seen in those within the political world of today.

Leadership is about more than forceful invective, posturing and being a general pain in the arse to those you don't like or have issue with.  Nigel Farage (in my view) lacks the experience, the charisma, the believability, the marketability, the UK exposure and the credentials to assume leadership of a viable alternative to the dreadful incumbents (both in government and opposition) we presently have at Westminster.

Just what, realistically, will be the make-up of that party or who its leader will be; I’m afraid that I have no clue. I am confident however that it is very unlikely that UKIP under the leadership of Nigel Farage will reach the point where they can assume the role of being that party of change – the party that this country so urgently needs and is crying out for.

As always, I am open minded on the subject and am happy to accommodate opinions to the contrary.

[Nickbat]

Well, you know we disagree on Nigel, Den.

But I would pick you up on your critique. You say that he "lacks the experience, the charisma, the believability, the marketability, the UK exposure and the credentials ".

Experience? Experience of what, exactly? The present incumbents have all rushed straight from university to leadership via party internships and there are few others in their parties that have had any experience of the outside world - actually many look and act as if they've gone straight from nursery to parliament with nothing in between. Nigel has, at least, run his own business in London and only later gave it up to go into politics.

The charisma? Why is "charisma" important? I'm afraid we see US presidents elected on the basis of charisma and look where it's got them. The best of intentions and actions to back them up are required, not X-factor charisma. Besides which, and this goes for your other doubts regarding believability, marketability and UK exposure, just read the comments below this piece in The Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2158835/Going-Viral-Nigel-Farage-slams-incompetent-Mariano-Rajoy-warns-Euro-Titanic-hit-iceberg.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Today I watched the Politics Show and PMQs. I heard not one, not one, MP answer a question with straight answer or sway from their party political script. It was refreshing to hear Farage tell it like it really is. Really refreshing. OK, maybe he doesn't doff his cap in an obsequious way to the apparent top brass in the EU, but then, they don't deserve it - do they?

A man who has come through testicular cancer and an air crash, yet can still put on a display like this, deserves respect. And he is gaining it, rapidly. 

P.S From the comments: The politics of madness , no wonder you can see the anger in his face as he was speaking. That is a man speaking with passion , from the heart , not like the traitors in Westminster who speak from crib sheets whilst their hearts are firmly fixed on their bank balances and their future on the EU gravy train.

Maybe that shows he does have charisma, after all. 
       

[Dishevelled Den]

Well Nige may have many attributes Nick - even some of those you mention (to a degree or other) but why does he not hold a seat at Westminster?  He should be telling it like it is there, he should be railing against the very people you mention – those who are disinclined to provide straight answers when required to do so.

It's curious that he chooses to dispute the failings of the incumbents of that gravy laden train by also being what seems to be a very comfortable co-passenger on it.  You see, I don't understand how someone could so apply much effort to establish his position in an environment where such observations and criticisms mean little as, I think it's safe to say, the course of the European Parliament has been firmly set and will not be diverted by such interference.

Aside from all that to the more prosaic - under the stewardship of Nigel Farage why has the UKIP not secured any seats in the Parliament of this country - or indeed seats in local government in a sufficient spread of the country which would suggest that the party does indeed have an exposure that may well, one day, allow them to be a reckonable force within British politics?

[Varche]

Personally, I think Farage is doing the right thing.

No point him having a seat in Westminster until such time as the balance of power in Parliament shifts. Currently the 3 main parties are pro EU and anti a referendum on anything even though they may have promised that in the past. As a result we will always have tactical voting (e.g. a drone might say "next election I'll vote Labour cos I don't want Conservatives") rather than people voting for new ideas.

When the Eurozone breaks up, then that may well precipitate increased interest in UKIP from the drones in the street. At that point he and many defectors (grass is greener) from the main parties would form a viable government.

As for leadership capabilities. Do any of the puppets currently leading their parties show leadership?

Although the details of the loan haven't been ironed out This is what the Spanish are being told in their press.
"the loan would be under very favorable conditions that include an interest rate of three percent and a maturity of 15 years with a stay on principal repayments until 2017" smoke and mirrors

[Nickbat]

Well Nige may have many attributes Nick - even some of those you mention (to a degree or other) but why does he not hold a seat at Westminster?  He should be telling it like it is there, he should be railing against the very people you mention – those who are disinclined to provide straight answers when required to do so.

It's curious that he chooses to dispute the failings of the incumbents of that gravy laden train by also being what seems to be a very comfortable co-passenger on it.  You see, I don't understand how someone could so apply much effort to establish his position in an environment where such observations and criticisms mean little as, I think it's safe to say, the course of the European Parliament has been firmly set and will not be diverted by such interference.

Aside from all that to the more prosaic - under the stewardship of Nigel Farage why has the UKIP not secured any seats in the Parliament of this country - or indeed seats in local government in a sufficient spread of the country which would suggest that the party does indeed have an exposure that may well, one day, allow them to be a reckonable force within British politics?

I'm a bit surprised by that, Den.

Farage did stand at the last election, but Europe was not high on the electorate's agenda. Also, UKIP do not have the finances of the Big Three parties and they suffer from a lack of air time afforded them by the media. Now that they are overtaking the LimpDems in many opinion polls, one cannot discount a snowball effect as more coverage buys them more support.

He was able, with others in UKIP, to secure MEP seats as the Euro elections concentrated people's minds on the issue of the EU and the sceptics, even at that time, were in the ascendancy. As for being a passenger on the gravy train, he earns about £85k p.a., less than many headteachers, doctors and CEOs. Do you think he should work so bloody hard (and he does!) and forfeit his salary?

He's doing a great job, IMHO. 

   

[Nickbat]

Had to laugh at this from zerohedge.com@


For your definitive documented "X is not Y" atlasing needs.

1. “Spain is not Greece.”
Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance minister, Feb. 2010

2. “Portugal is not Greece.”
The Economist, 22nd April 2010.

3. “Ireland is not in ‘Greek Territory.’”
Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan.

4. “Greece is not Ireland.”
George Papaconstantinou, Greek Finance minister, 8th November, 2010.

5. “Spain is neither Ireland nor Portugal.”
Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance minister, 16 November 2010.

6. “Neither Spain nor Portugal is Ireland.”
Angel Gurria, Secretary-general OECD, 18th November, 2010.

7. "Spain is not Uganda"
Rajoy to Guindos... Last weekend!

8. "Italy is not Spain"
Ed Parker, Fitch MD, 12 June 201


Well I'm glad that's settled. I was having trouble with my maps. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/definitive-lesson-new-normal-european-geography

[Dishevelled Den]

Personally, I think Farage is doing the right thing.

No point him having a seat in Westminster until such time as the balance of power in Parliament shifts. Currently the 3 main parties are pro EU and anti a referendum on anything even though they may have promised that in the past. As a result we will always have tactical voting (e.g. a drone might say "next election I'll vote Labour cos I don't want Conservatives") rather than people voting for new ideas.

When the Eurozone breaks up, then that may well precipitate increased interest in UKIP from the drones in the street. At that point he and many defectors (grass is greener) from the main parties would form a viable government.

As for leadership capabilities. Do any of the puppets currently leading their parties show leadership?

Although the details of the loan haven't been ironed out This is what the Spanish are being told in their press.
"the loan would be under very favorable conditions that include an interest rate of three percent and a maturity of 15 years with a stay on principal repayments until 2017" smoke and mirrors

 Far from wishing to disagree with you V  – as I really am quite an agreeable individual - but I would submit that Nigel Farage has a seat in the European Parliament because he can't get one at Westminster where he should be (so indeed should anyone else be if they really wish to do something about this EU problem.