Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheBoy]

AOL has always sucked, i know BT uncapped is expensive, but because they own the line and hardware they problem solve quicker than most ISP's. And i also download about 200 gig's of movie's etc evey month, and to do that you need an unthrottled and uncapped service. AOL has neither, even if they claim otherwise.

Hmnn... now that i think about it, BT does throttle SOME p2p services, but you can work round it with proxys and random ports.

No, has to be run as seperate entities for regulatory reasons.

Also, last persion I know who downloaded that much on BT consumer ISP ended up with a £100 bill....

Beg to differ mate, BT have engineers in all citys and most towns, so they DO respond to problems faster than say Pipex or tiscali
 As for the bandwidth question? well i pay 50 quid a month for an uncapped service, UNCAPPED, so i don't know what you mean by 'consumer ISP' , for me? well it was nearer 250gig's last month (I wanted to catch up on 'Lost') I suppose it depends on what you use you're connection for.

Sorry, you are incorrect.  BT do not have mobile ISP engineers.  The engineers you see are Openreach engineers, and are entirely unrelated with the ISPs (BT Yahoo, BT Broadband, BT Connect, Plusnet) that BT own.  If a BT ISP customer has a line fault, BT ISPs have to use the same BT Wholesale systems and processes as every other BT Wholesale customer, and get the same treatment.

I'm interested in what ISP you use - is it consumer or a business account (Business generally are uncapped).  Still, 250Gb is excessive even for a small business.  What the hell do you use that much bandwidth for - you'd be better off with a LES10 or similar circuit if your legitimate needs are that high - That is higher than a 1Mb max'd out line 24/7

I reckon BT Total Broadband option 3

Nah, not unlimited.

[Martin_1962]

And the reason no consumer ISP will do true unlimited bandwidth is costs - a max'd out 8Mbit line costs around £1500 per month in Central costs alone. This does not include port costs (£6-£8 per month).  Then there are transit costs.  So a max'd out 8Mb line is approaching £2k per month.  So losing the ISP £1950 per month.

I think what they rely upon are the following

1) people who make little use subsidise the big users.
2) people who do make a big use do not do it every month, so may cost 10 one month and 50 the next

That said BT seem to be very tolerant

[Iainv6]

AOL has always sucked, i know BT uncapped is expensive, but because they own the line and hardware they problem solve quicker than most ISP's. And i also download about 200 gig's of movie's etc evey month, and to do that you need an unthrottled and uncapped service. AOL has neither, even if they claim otherwise.

Hmnn... now that i think about it, BT does throttle SOME p2p services, but you can work round it with proxys and random ports.

No, has to be run as seperate entities for regulatory reasons.

Also, last persion I know who downloaded that much on BT consumer ISP ended up with a £100 bill....

Beg to differ mate, BT have engineers in all citys and most towns, so they DO respond to problems faster than say Pipex or tiscali
 As for the bandwidth question? well i pay 50 quid a month for an uncapped service, UNCAPPED, so i don't know what you mean by 'consumer ISP' , for me? well it was nearer 250gig's last month (I wanted to catch up on 'Lost') I suppose it depends on what you use you're connection for.

Sorry, you are incorrect.  BT do not have mobile ISP engineers.  The engineers you see are Openreach engineers, and are entirely unrelated with the ISPs (BT Yahoo, BT Broadband, BT Connect, Plusnet) that BT own.  If a BT ISP customer has a line fault, BT ISPs have to use the same BT Wholesale systems and processes as every other BT Wholesale customer, and get the same treatment.

I'm interested in what ISP you use - is it consumer or a business account (Business generally are uncapped).  Still, 250Gb is excessive even for a small business.  What the hell do you use that much bandwidth for - you'd be better off with a LES10 or similar circuit if your legitimate needs are that high - That is higher than a 1Mb max'd out line 24/7

My ISP is BT , i get a true 970kb/s download speed, which gives me 60megs/minute and about 3.6 gigs/hr, which at full speed would be about 86 gigs/day.
Now, sky anytime on PC takes up a LITTLE bit of my width, but most is taken up with usenet binaries. All un-copyrighted of course.

So, a 1meg maxed out line as you mentioned, would give a true download speed of about 85-90 kb/s, i have much more.

[Martin_1962]

AOL has always sucked, i know BT uncapped is expensive, but because they own the line and hardware they problem solve quicker than most ISP's. And i also download about 200 gig's of movie's etc evey month, and to do that you need an unthrottled and uncapped service. AOL has neither, even if they claim otherwise.

Hmnn... now that i think about it, BT does throttle SOME p2p services, but you can work round it with proxys and random ports.

No, has to be run as seperate entities for regulatory reasons.

Also, last persion I know who downloaded that much on BT consumer ISP ended up with a £100 bill....

Beg to differ mate, BT have engineers in all citys and most towns, so they DO respond to problems faster than say Pipex or tiscali
 As for the bandwidth question? well i pay 50 quid a month for an uncapped service, UNCAPPED, so i don't know what you mean by 'consumer ISP' , for me? well it was nearer 250gig's last month (I wanted to catch up on 'Lost') I suppose it depends on what you use you're connection for.

Sorry, you are incorrect.  BT do not have mobile ISP engineers.  The engineers you see are Openreach engineers, and are entirely unrelated with the ISPs (BT Yahoo, BT Broadband, BT Connect, Plusnet) that BT own.  If a BT ISP customer has a line fault, BT ISPs have to use the same BT Wholesale systems and processes as every other BT Wholesale customer, and get the same treatment.

I'm interested in what ISP you use - is it consumer or a business account (Business generally are uncapped).  Still, 250Gb is excessive even for a small business.  What the hell do you use that much bandwidth for - you'd be better off with a LES10 or similar circuit if your legitimate needs are that high - That is higher than a 1Mb max'd out line 24/7

I reckon BT Total Broadband option 3

Nah, not unlimited.

Used to be 40GB a month but was redesignated.

I use rarely under 10GB but rarely over 40GB.

I think they just take the risk on usage. Everyone though says to avoid bargain bucket ISPs

[TheBoy]

And the reason no consumer ISP will do true unlimited bandwidth is costs - a max'd out 8Mbit line costs around £1500 per month in Central costs alone. This does not include port costs (£6-£8 per month).  Then there are transit costs.  So a max'd out 8Mb line is approaching £2k per month.  So losing the ISP £1950 per month.

I think what they rely upon are the following

1) people who make little use subsidise the big users.
2) people who do make a big use do not do it every month, so may cost 10 one month and 50 the next

That said BT seem to be very tolerant

Yup, thats what they rely on - though remember, before anything else, port costs £6 - £8 before anything else.  Then Central costs (a 622 central is around £1m per year). Transit costs (onward onto net), infrastructure (mail, dns, radius, news, proxies), overheads (electric, cooling, staff, premises), and profit all have to be made.

It takes an awful lot of light users to pay for a big p2p user.

[TheBoy]

AOL has always sucked, i know BT uncapped is expensive, but because they own the line and hardware they problem solve quicker than most ISP's. And i also download about 200 gig's of movie's etc evey month, and to do that you need an unthrottled and uncapped service. AOL has neither, even if they claim otherwise.

Hmnn... now that i think about it, BT does throttle SOME p2p services, but you can work round it with proxys and random ports.

No, has to be run as seperate entities for regulatory reasons.

Also, last persion I know who downloaded that much on BT consumer ISP ended up with a £100 bill....

Beg to differ mate, BT have engineers in all citys and most towns, so they DO respond to problems faster than say Pipex or tiscali
 As for the bandwidth question? well i pay 50 quid a month for an uncapped service, UNCAPPED, so i don't know what you mean by 'consumer ISP' , for me? well it was nearer 250gig's last month (I wanted to catch up on 'Lost') I suppose it depends on what you use you're connection for.

Sorry, you are incorrect.  BT do not have mobile ISP engineers.  The engineers you see are Openreach engineers, and are entirely unrelated with the ISPs (BT Yahoo, BT Broadband, BT Connect, Plusnet) that BT own.  If a BT ISP customer has a line fault, BT ISPs have to use the same BT Wholesale systems and processes as every other BT Wholesale customer, and get the same treatment.

I'm interested in what ISP you use - is it consumer or a business account (Business generally are uncapped).  Still, 250Gb is excessive even for a small business.  What the hell do you use that much bandwidth for - you'd be better off with a LES10 or similar circuit if your legitimate needs are that high - That is higher than a 1Mb max'd out line 24/7

My ISP is BT , i get a true 970kb/s download speed, which gives me 60megs/minute and about 3.6 gigs/hr, which at full speed would be about 86 gigs/day.
Now, sky anytime on PC takes up a LITTLE bit of my width, but most is taken up with usenet binaries. All un-copyrighted of course.

So, a 1meg maxed out line as you mentioned, would give a true download speed of about 85-90 kb/s, i have much more.

As you are a BT customer, you won't have more than an 8Mbit line.  Therefore I'm guessing you mean you get 900kb (b=bits), so around 10MB (bytes) per min. 600MB per hour.

What the hell do you download?  There is a limit to the number of 'Linux distros' you can download in a month

[Iainv6]

And the reason no consumer ISP will do true unlimited bandwidth is costs - a max'd out 8Mbit line costs around £1500 per month in Central costs alone. This does not include port costs (£6-£8 per month).  Then there are transit costs.  So a max'd out 8Mb line is approaching £2k per month.  So losing the ISP £1950 per month.

I think what they rely upon are the following

1) people who make little use subsidise the big users.
2) people who do make a big use do not do it every month, so may cost 10 one month and 50 the next

That said BT seem to be very tolerant

Yup, thats what they rely on - though remember, before anything else, port costs £6 - £8 before anything else.  Then Central costs (a 622 central is around £1m per year). Transit costs (onward onto net), infrastructure (mail, dns, radius, news, proxies), overheads (electric, cooling, staff, premises), and profit all have to be made.

It takes an awful lot of light users to pay for a big p2p user.

You know you're hardware stuff mate

But i must say, i am NOT a p2p user, that is a way too open and WAY too slow way to get data. Binaries are faster and less CPU draining

[Iainv6]

AOL has always sucked, i know BT uncapped is expensive, but because they own the line and hardware they problem solve quicker than most ISP's. And i also download about 200 gig's of movie's etc evey month, and to do that you need an unthrottled and uncapped service. AOL has neither, even if they claim otherwise.

Hmnn... now that i think about it, BT does throttle SOME p2p services, but you can work round it with proxys and random ports.

No, has to be run as seperate entities for regulatory reasons.

Also, last persion I know who downloaded that much on BT consumer ISP ended up with a £100 bill....

Beg to differ mate, BT have engineers in all citys and most towns, so they DO respond to problems faster than say Pipex or tiscali
 As for the bandwidth question? well i pay 50 quid a month for an uncapped service, UNCAPPED, so i don't know what you mean by 'consumer ISP' , for me? well it was nearer 250gig's last month (I wanted to catch up on 'Lost') I suppose it depends on what you use you're connection for.

Sorry, you are incorrect.  BT do not have mobile ISP engineers.  The engineers you see are Openreach engineers, and are entirely unrelated with the ISPs (BT Yahoo, BT Broadband, BT Connect, Plusnet) that BT own.  If a BT ISP customer has a line fault, BT ISPs have to use the same BT Wholesale systems and processes as every other BT Wholesale customer, and get the same treatment.

I'm interested in what ISP you use - is it consumer or a business account (Business generally are uncapped).  Still, 250Gb is excessive even for a small business.  What the hell do you use that much bandwidth for - you'd be better off with a LES10 or similar circuit if your legitimate needs are that high - That is higher than a 1Mb max'd out line 24/7

My ISP is BT , i get a true 970kb/s download speed, which gives me 60megs/minute and about 3.6 gigs/hr, which at full speed would be about 86 gigs/day.
Now, sky anytime on PC takes up a LITTLE bit of my width, but most is taken up with usenet binaries. All un-copyrighted of course.

So, a 1meg maxed out line as you mentioned, would give a true download speed of about 85-90 kb/s, i have much more.

As you are a BT customer, you won't have more than an 8Mbit line.  Therefore I'm guessing you mean you get 900kb (b=bits), so around 10MB (bytes) per min. 600MB per hour.

What the hell do you download?  There is a limit to the number of 'Linux distros' you can download in a month

Dude, i can download a 4.5 gigabyte DVD in just over an hour, so i have no idea where you get this 600mb thing from. And yes i do have a 8meg line.

[TheBoy]

AOL has always sucked, i know BT uncapped is expensive, but because they own the line and hardware they problem solve quicker than most ISP's. And i also download about 200 gig's of movie's etc evey month, and to do that you need an unthrottled and uncapped service. AOL has neither, even if they claim otherwise.

Hmnn... now that i think about it, BT does throttle SOME p2p services, but you can work round it with proxys and random ports.

No, has to be run as seperate entities for regulatory reasons.

Also, last persion I know who downloaded that much on BT consumer ISP ended up with a £100 bill....

Beg to differ mate, BT have engineers in all citys and most towns, so they DO respond to problems faster than say Pipex or tiscali
 As for the bandwidth question? well i pay 50 quid a month for an uncapped service, UNCAPPED, so i don't know what you mean by 'consumer ISP' , for me? well it was nearer 250gig's last month (I wanted to catch up on 'Lost') I suppose it depends on what you use you're connection for.

Sorry, you are incorrect.  BT do not have mobile ISP engineers.  The engineers you see are Openreach engineers, and are entirely unrelated with the ISPs (BT Yahoo, BT Broadband, BT Connect, Plusnet) that BT own.  If a BT ISP customer has a line fault, BT ISPs have to use the same BT Wholesale systems and processes as every other BT Wholesale customer, and get the same treatment.

I'm interested in what ISP you use - is it consumer or a business account (Business generally are uncapped).  Still, 250Gb is excessive even for a small business.  What the hell do you use that much bandwidth for - you'd be better off with a LES10 or similar circuit if your legitimate needs are that high - That is higher than a 1Mb max'd out line 24/7

My ISP is BT , i get a true 970kb/s download speed, which gives me 60megs/minute and about 3.6 gigs/hr, which at full speed would be about 86 gigs/day.
Now, sky anytime on PC takes up a LITTLE bit of my width, but most is taken up with usenet binaries. All un-copyrighted of course.

So, a 1meg maxed out line as you mentioned, would give a true download speed of about 85-90 kb/s, i have much more.

As you are a BT customer, you won't have more than an 8Mbit line.  Therefore I'm guessing you mean you get 900kb (b=bits), so around 10MB (bytes) per min. 600MB per hour.

What the hell do you download?  There is a limit to the number of 'Linux distros' you can download in a month

Dude, i can download a 4.5 gigabyte DVD in just over an hour, so i have no idea where you get this 600mb thing from. And yes i do have a 8meg line.

Assuming its a copyright free DVD, and assuming you live in a telephone exchange, your best throughput will be a shade over 7000kb/s (bits).  So line throughput, shade under 700kB/s (bytes).  Add in the IP, TCP, and NNTP protocol overheads, I'd say (without a calculator to work it out), somewhere in the region of 500 - 600kB/s (NNTP isn't hugely efficient, being designed for text).  So I'd guess just under 2GB per hour theoretical maximum.

That is assuming 100% throughput capability in the rest of the system - Centrals (likely to be fairly heavily contended), exchange backhaul (likely to be medium/heavy contented), ISP infrastructure (light/medium contention), and assuming you're using a commercial nntp server, transit (medium contention).

The 600MB came from you say 900kb/s - which cannot be 900kB/s from 8Mb line, so assumed you were getting around around 1Mb throughput.

[Iainv6]

AOL has always sucked, i know BT uncapped is expensive, but because they own the line and hardware they problem solve quicker than most ISP's. And i also download about 200 gig's of movie's etc evey month, and to do that you need an unthrottled and uncapped service. AOL has neither, even if they claim otherwise.

Hmnn... now that i think about it, BT does throttle SOME p2p services, but you can work round it with proxys and random ports.

No, has to be run as seperate entities for regulatory reasons.

Also, last persion I know who downloaded that much on BT consumer ISP ended up with a £100 bill....

Beg to differ mate, BT have engineers in all citys and most towns, so they DO respond to problems faster than say Pipex or tiscali
 As for the bandwidth question? well i pay 50 quid a month for an uncapped service, UNCAPPED, so i don't know what you mean by 'consumer ISP' , for me? well it was nearer 250gig's last month (I wanted to catch up on 'Lost') I suppose it depends on what you use you're connection for.

Sorry, you are incorrect.  BT do not have mobile ISP engineers.  The engineers you see are Openreach engineers, and are entirely unrelated with the ISPs (BT Yahoo, BT Broadband, BT Connect, Plusnet) that BT own.  If a BT ISP customer has a line fault, BT ISPs have to use the same BT Wholesale systems and processes as every other BT Wholesale customer, and get the same treatment.

I'm interested in what ISP you use - is it consumer or a business account (Business generally are uncapped).  Still, 250Gb is excessive even for a small business.  What the hell do you use that much bandwidth for - you'd be better off with a LES10 or similar circuit if your legitimate needs are that high - That is higher than a 1Mb max'd out line 24/7

My ISP is BT , i get a true 970kb/s download speed, which gives me 60megs/minute and about 3.6 gigs/hr, which at full speed would be about 86 gigs/day.
Now, sky anytime on PC takes up a LITTLE bit of my width, but most is taken up with usenet binaries. All un-copyrighted of course.

So, a 1meg maxed out line as you mentioned, would give a true download speed of about 85-90 kb/s, i have much more.

As you are a BT customer, you won't have more than an 8Mbit line.  Therefore I'm guessing you mean you get 900kb (b=bits), so around 10MB (bytes) per min. 600MB per hour.

What the hell do you download?  There is a limit to the number of 'Linux distros' you can download in a month

Dude, i can download a 4.5 gigabyte DVD in just over an hour, so i have no idea where you get this 600mb thing from. And yes i do have a 8meg line.

Assuming its a copyright free DVD, and assuming you live in a telephone exchange, your best throughput will be a shade over 7000kb/s (bits).  So line throughput, shade under 700kB/s (bytes).  Add in the IP, TCP, and NNTP protocol overheads, I'd say (without a calculator to work it out), somewhere in the region of 500 - 600kB/s (NNTP isn't hugely efficient, being designed for text).  So I'd guess just under 2GB per hour theoretical maximum.

That is assuming 100% throughput capability in the rest of the system - Centrals (likely to be fairly heavily contended), exchange backhaul (likely to be medium/heavy contented), ISP infrastructure (light/medium contention), and assuming you're using a commercial nntp server, transit (medium contention).

The 600MB came from you say 900kb/s - which cannot be 900kB/s from 8Mb line, so assumed you were getting around around 1Mb throughput.

I almost DO live in an exchange, very close
Are you familiar with binaries? 0's and 1's? very quick way to send data

Having said that, even downloading from such sites as rapidshare i get 850kb/s so WAY above you're theoretical max

[TheBoy]

I almost DO live in an exchange, very close
Are you familiar with binaries? 0's and 1's? very quick way to send data

Having said that, even downloading from such sites as rapidshare i get 850kb/s so WAY above you're theoretical max

The implementation of MaxDSL puts a theoretical maximum of just over 7000kb/s, not the 8192kb/s you'd expect.  An thats if you live in the exchange.  Hence much of the hassles with ISPs advertising 8Mb (now they have to clearly say 'up to 8Mb').

Be worse when 24Mb connections come....

[Iainv6]

I almost DO live in an exchange, very close
Are you familiar with binaries? 0's and 1's? very quick way to send data

Having said that, even downloading from such sites as rapidshare i get 850kb/s so WAY above you're theoretical max

The implementation of MaxDSL puts a theoretical maximum of just over 7000kb/s, not the 8192kb/s you'd expect.  An thats if you live in the exchange.  Hence much of the hassles with ISPs advertising 8Mb (now they have to clearly say 'up to 8Mb').

Be worse when 24Mb connections come....

Agreed truce then my Omega knowing friend??  :-/

[TheBoy]

I almost DO live in an exchange, very close
Are you familiar with binaries? 0's and 1's? very quick way to send data

Having said that, even downloading from such sites as rapidshare i get 850kb/s so WAY above you're theoretical max

The implementation of MaxDSL puts a theoretical maximum of just over 7000kb/s, not the 8192kb/s you'd expect.  An thats if you live in the exchange.  Hence much of the hassles with ISPs advertising 8Mb (now they have to clearly say 'up to 8Mb').

Be worse when 24Mb connections come....

Agreed truce then my Omega knowing friend??  :-/

No need for truce? We haven't fallen out or argued have we? We've just discussed the technicalities of DSL   - something that I have to understand very well

Still no idea what you can legally use all that bandwidth for  

[Mr Skrunts]

I am with Plusnet, not far from my exchange.



I still have have the old Premier style account.

Been on it from the satrt.

I can download, what I want, as much as I want whenever I want it.

Just recently with the higher bandwidth speeds they have applied a fair usage policy.  I am capped from 4 pm untill midnight (dunno the limit)

I have had speeds upto 7546 KB/s they vary dependend on holidays etc, will speed back up soon as people go to bed.

I dont really down load at all these days, but when I do its the usual windows install/updates etc.

[Iainv6]

I almost DO live in an exchange, very close
Are you familiar with binaries? 0's and 1's? very quick way to send data

Having said that, even downloading from such sites as rapidshare i get 850kb/s so WAY above you're theoretical max

The implementation of MaxDSL puts a theoretical maximum of just over 7000kb/s, not the 8192kb/s you'd expect.  An thats if you live in the exchange.  Hence much of the hassles with ISPs advertising 8Mb (now they have to clearly say 'up to 8Mb').

Be worse when 24Mb connections come....

Agreed truce then my Omega knowing friend??  :-/

No need for truce? We haven't fallen out or argued have we? We've just discussed the technicalities of DSL   - something that I have to understand very well

Still no idea what you can legally use all that bandwidth for  

Yes, i suppose we were having a discussion about DSL or xDSL, as to the bandwidth issue, legally Sky anytime can suck up 100gigs/month easy if you want it. Anything d/l on usenet. i make SURE is copyright free...all 200gigs of it. I'm a law abiding citizen.