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[Kevin Wood]

I wonder if it's down to the handling of emergency calls rather than the health service itself. Based on my experience trying to call out the Police recently it's just another call centre staffed by idiots these days.

[D]

Sorry, but where do you get the ring fenced budget from? Do you work in the NHS? Are you aware of the constant bombarding of frontline NHS staff with cutbacks and savings propaganda everyday? Every NHS organisation has to make a 5% efficiency saving year on year with a £20 billion target by 2015. Its in the DOH white paper for every one to see. Doesn't sound like ring fencing to me? And who goes in the efficiency savings? Unfortunately paramedics, paramedical staff, nurses. Not managers. They are busy working out efficiency formulae.

The very reason why managers exist. Because the govt. sets NHS institutions punitive managerial targets. And doctors/nurses/physios/therapists are no good at showing they can/are/have achieved these targets. They are set by managers and need managers to respond to. Hence they exist and will continue to till the idiots who run the country realise that health isn't measured by managerial targets but rather by patient outcomes.

We have just been told that we will probably loose our only specialist nurse(in our specialty) in a large teaching hospital, due to the fact that there are cutbacks being made. So it must be the so called ring fenced budget that causes us to loose the only specialist nurse we have in a tertiary level referral hospital? So once she goes who will provide clinical backup for our patient base? Perhaps the managers? Or the so called people who think that NHS budgets are ring fenced.

Rant over!

[the alarming man]

Sorry, but where do you get the ring fenced budget from? Do you work in the NHS? Are you aware of the constant bombarding of frontline NHS staff with cutbacks and savings propaganda everyday? Every NHS organisation has to make a 5% efficiency saving year on year with a £20 billion target by 2015. Its in the DOH white paper for every one to see. Doesn't sound like ring fencing to me? And who goes in the efficiency savings? Unfortunately paramedics, paramedical staff, nurses. Not managers. They are busy working out efficiency formulae.

The very reason why managers exist. Because the govt. sets NHS institutions punitive managerial targets. And doctors/nurses/physios/therapists are no good at showing they can/are/have achieved these targets. They are set by managers and need managers to respond to. Hence they exist and will continue to till the idiots who run the country realise that health isn't measured by managerial targets but rather by patient outcomes.

We have just been told that we will probably loose our only specialist nurse(in our specialty) in a large teaching hospital, due to the fact that there are cutbacks being made. So it must be the so called ring fenced budget that causes us to loose the only specialist nurse we have in a tertiary level referral hospital? So once she goes who will provide clinical backup for our patient base? Perhaps the managers? Or the so called people who think that NHS budgets are ring fenced.

Rant over!

unfortunately it is NOT a rant it is the truth,but still a small minority voted this shower in but also want a plod/paramedic/fireman within nano seconds of putting the phone down BUT the inconveint truth is that the budget is NOT ring fenced and front line services are affected.I worked for the L.A.S for 18 months (just after this shower were ousted last time) and belive me the damage that is being done to the NHS now will take years to put right

[albitz]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8341737/True-extent-of-NHS-job-cuts-revealed.html

http://www.hsj.co.uk/news/finance/businesses-call-for-osborne-to-dip-into-health-budget-if-economy-worsens/5035579.article

The NHS budget is ringfenced,but the truth is thats not the whole story.There are various elements to it and one of the biggest elements is NHS inflation (primarily the cost of drugs) runs much higher than inflation in almost any other area,so in real terms the budget actually gets smaller.I suspect the reason for this was Labours blank cheque attitude,where they allowed the public sector to grow like a mushroom on steroids and simply raised taxes time and time again to pay for it.
As in other sectors,the suppliers to the NHS took advantage of this and racked up their prices over and over again.We have all heard the stories of £75 light bulbs and pills costing the NHS many pounds where they could be bought over the counter for a few pence.They saw the gravy train and hitched a ride on it,as they knew the money was freely available come what may.
This couldnt carry on forever,it has to stop.The people who are supposed to be managing the NHS shouldnt have let it start in the first place,but no doubt they wer/are also in the first class carriage on  the gravy train.
If the message starts trickling down from the beauracrats that the gravy train mentality is coming to an end that should be a good thing,if its managed properly.It looks very much like it isnt being managed very well at all.
Maybe theres a reason (other than cost) why NHS managers would like to limit freedom of information requests ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9075181/NHS-managers-want-to-limit-Freedom-of-Information-requests.html
They are now in a position where they (if they are conscientious) should be sacking themselves in order to help create an effective and efficient organisation,but turkeys dont vote for christmas.
Its no big secret that other areas of the public sector, such as councils, have adopted an attitude of resisting cost and efficiency savings,and when the savings are forced on them they make sure that its the most obviously vulnerable people who suffer most.
This gives the media,lobbyists etc. plenty of ammunition to "fight the good fight" to keep things exactly as they are.
People arent going to think the Govt. is crap if a group of pen pushers in some distant council office lose their jobs,but they certainly will if their bins dont get emptied or their housing benifit etc. is cut.
I would imagine the same attitude is lurking in the pen pushers offices in the NHS. So could that be the reason why frontline staff are losing their jobs while penpushers arent ? Could it be that the buyers who deal with the drug companies have their own reasons for not negotiating every last penny they can from the suppliers.
Supermarkets have come in for a lot of stick recently for driving down the prices they pay their suppliers. The NHS is apparenly among the top 10 biggest employers in the world, it should have huge bargaining power over its suppliers,even allowing for the fact that in some cases those suppliers may have exclusive licences to manufacture some of the products.
Imo the NHS has some very big problems (not caused by the current govt.) which need to be addressed. If Labour had stayed in power they would have had to face the challenge too.Remember they left a note for the incoming govt. informing them that there was no money left.
The NHS has had an almost endless supply of money for the last 15  or so years and imo is in worse shape now than it was then.
The answer to its troubles arent just about money,it needs to be managed by people who really care about it and are capable of delivering an effective and efficient NHS. It used to be the envy of the world but not any more,and that hasnt happened in the last two years or so.
Im not particularily standing up for the Tories btw. Ive never voted for them in my life.But to simply blame anything thats wrong with the NHS on them doesnt stand up to much scrutiny imo.
Until all interested parties have an honest objective conversation about what is the best way forward for the future healthcare of the country (which should be much more important than salaries,pensions,job security of any particular group of people involved) then I suspect we will keep going round in the same ever decreasing circles,unti lthe country really is bankrupt - which could happen in the not too distant future - and then there wont be an NHS,as there really will be no money to pay for it.

[the alarming man]

Albs you can post as many links as you want the truth of the matter is that front line services have suffered and will suffer under this shower of s£$t that is in power at the moment.This is due to the budget NOT being ring femced in any way shape or form.
As for pen pusher in the council SWMBO is one of those due too a 10 % a year cut in budget how is it front line service such as extra tution for austism and the like as been scraped???....As for SWMBO her job is under fire again she finds out in the next couple of days if she as one and her service is required as she looks after trainee teachers,or prehaps we should scrap that reqirement as well,
The truth of the matter is the goverment are not ring fenceing any budgets and untill you work in the sectors thast are affected the truth of this goverment can not be seen

[Rods2]

Einstein said: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

We know from the Russian experience that Command style industries don't work and will NEVER effectively work once the link of an industry having paying customers is broken.

The French system is an insurance system where a hospital is paid for treating a patient from the national fund. A small means-tested contribution is made by the patient. They have a mix of of public and private hospitals. In all the statistics I've seen on patient outcomes the French results are much better. I've English friends who live in France, who have used French hospitals for treatment and confirm that the French system at all points of use is far superior to the NHS.

They both consume about the same % of GDP it is just that the French system is much more efficient.

[pscocoa]

They kept the lady in overnight - luckily it was a dislocation - they reset it at second attempt BUT
after the 1 hour wait for the ambulance she was kept on a trolley in a corridor for 5 hours according to family.

I think Kevin posted about mismanagement of calls - which it has to be - but saw mismanagement in the oppposite way with a friend's recent kitchen appliance fire when 3 fire engines turned up - one from each of Hampshire, Berkshire and Surrey - Sandhurst is on border of all 3. In fact one of calls I made yesterday put me through to South Coast Ambulance Service. Work to be done I think!!