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Author Topic: hello people, me again! ticking / blowing exaust / low power uphill ?  (Read 6379 times)

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spanish_lad

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 >:(

grrrr omegas .. hahah :D

ok, here goes, hello again, its been a while :) (thats a good thing, right?? )

now we´ve still got the 25XE and shes running lovely, starts first time. only gets 270-300 km from a full tank ( booo :( )

but theres a terrible clicking / tapping -- im wondering if the manifold is cracked? when mine went it just sounded like i had no exaust fitted (renault 1.6) .. so im not sure. and when we go uphill (cold) it really lacks power - even with your foot on the floor it doesnt accelerate? (ok yeah it gets quicker but its not spinning the back wheels / head pinned to the headrest type acceleration??)

im about to get it on the ramps and see if i can find any leaks by hand, but it looks like manifold cracks or gasket faults are coman on these engines?
« Last Edit: 29 August 2012, 18:32:34 by spanish_lad »
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spanish_lad

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ok so after some minor investigations ive found that the exaust manifold is leaking at the rear right hand side, the "left bank" as it were.

is that likely to be the manifold or the gasket? its at the far rear between the engine and the firewall.

either way it looks like imgoing to have to start stripping it before i can tell for sure ?  :-[
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symes

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when exhaust blows on these cars they become gutless mate there should be an exhaust sealing ring between pipe and manifold also check joint other end of cat/pipe they leak there too
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spanish_lad

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the right bank seems real hard to get at. ive looked from underneath.. and its tight.. from up top its underneath the air con hoses and the power steering fluid bottle...


anyone got any tips on how to get at it? (and no mr haynes, im not dropping the engine out to undo a few bolts :p )
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amba

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Have a good read through this fairly extensive description of what is involved replacing n/s exhaust manifold gasket ...assuming you dont remove the heads or take engine out as the "book of liars" suggests.

Best of luck with it :y

PASSENGER SIDE EXHAUST MANIFOLD GASKET  REPLACEMENT

Took 2 full days – mainly due to fiddly problems.
On the facelift 2.5 V6 it’s not essential to remove the engine or even to move the engine.
The job goes like this (sorry no pictures just needed to get it done).

Parts

Coolant transfer pipe O-rings x 2
Dipstick tube O-rings x 2 (cost about £3 each retail !)
Coolant
Exhaust downpipe nuts M10 x 2            90570845   approx £1.50 each (have helicoil insert)
Manifold gasket                              24416110            £5.91
Manifold nuts x 7                        11082413            £0.26 each  (get a couple spare)
Manifold studs x 7                        90106924            £0.45 each  (get a couple spare)
Front pipe gasket                        90499289            £4.55 each
Secondary Air Injection gaskets x 2         90467427            £0.40 each
Few M8 nuts (I think, check them on the new studs) to use to lock together to get studs in and studs out

Above prices maybe abit out of date now but part #,s are good

The job

Drain the coolant using red tap at bottom corner of radiator – note that this may not be required. Depends on how lucky you feel just rotating the coolant transfer pipe.

Jack up the passenger side front wheel.
Fit axle stand.
Remove passenger side front wheel (easier to get in and out from under car and allows access to one exhaust stud through hole in wheel arch).

Remove passenger side cat:
Undo the 16mm nuts connecting exhaust manifold to down pipe (long extension required). I’d recommend tapping the ratchet round with a hammer to reduce the chance of shearing the studs on the exhaust manifold.
Separate the cat from the mid box – these bolts will be solid. 13mm head. Grind off protruding thread to help undoing. Lots of penetrating oil. Tap ratchet with hammer to try to prevent shearing. If they do shear it’s not the end of the world. When the cat’s off drill out the bolt and when you put everything back together use a nut and bolt rather than bolting into the tapped part on the cat.
Undo the 13mm support bolt.
Catch the very heavy downpipe / cat.

Penetrating oil on all exhaust heat shield bolts.
4 bolts on top heat shield, one hidden one just about accessible from underneath.
2 bolts for lower heat shield.
Removed using E10 torx socket and 8mm ratchet ring spanner. Quite fiddly.
You might find one or two shear off, although none of mine did.
You can just about drag the top heatshield out of the way down past where the downpipe was fitted.
You do need it out of the way.

Ignition on, disconnect battery –ve
Remove +ve feed from battery (to give a little bit more room)
Lift cover for ECU box slide it up and out, partially lift out loom to engine (to get some extra room to work)
Undo and remove bracket holding PAS reservoir.
Unclip and remove bonnet switch.
Unclip wiring near PAS reservoir from stud on suspension turret.
Undo and remove bracket near dipstick holding earth wire and aircon pipe. You’ll need to unclip the earth wire.

Undo the Secondary Air Injection pipe at the hose end and at the two points where it goes into the exhaust manifold.
I couldn’t get the SAI pipe out so I left it in place and moved it around when required.

Undo the b*stard bolt holding the engine lifting bracket, coolant transfer pipe and dipstick in place. Make a note of where the spacer goes.
Rotate the lifting bracket and remove it. It has a L at the bottom which is why is doesn’t just slide out.
You need to rotate the coolant transfer pipe to allow the dipstick to be released. If you think the O-rings will keep their seal then there is no need to remove the coolant transfer pipe but really you should remove it and replace the O-rings once you’ve disturbed it.

Now you need to get the dipstick out. This is hard and took me a lot of time. At this point it “just pulls out”. I broke a nylon 500kg rope trying to “pull it out”. You need to pull in the right direction – roughly next to where the PAS reservoir sits is about right. Rotate the dipstick to loosen it, wiggle and pull. Pull, pull, pull. Mine came out mm by mm. I tried rope round the bracket on to a long bar that rested on a block of wood on the suspension turret. Got huge amount of leverage, which may have loosened it.
You have to get the dipstick out to gain access to one stud. I tried to work around it but you’ll never get the stud back in.

Undo the manifold studs. You’ll need a selection of ratchet extensions to get on to the studs. One can be accessed through a hole in the wheel arch.
Post 98 models should have the non-seize manifold nuts fitted
Make sure you get the most sturdy ratchet you can on and get the socket on square. The nuts are copper and easily round off. With a solid tug they’ll all undo. Generally the stud comes out of the block – which is very helpful.
I used ½” drive where possible to undo.
3/8” drive where I had to.
But for refitting a ¼” drive got you a long way.

If one shears the best option may be to live without it. On mine the rear most stud had sheared all on its own. Luckily there was a fair bit of stud left and it even had thread on it. To get it out I had to get a nut welded on. The heat from the welding probably helped to – but it was still very tight.

   
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amba

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When you put the new studs in they generally do up into the block before the new nut starts working its way down the thread. The new nuts are supplied slightly swashed. If it goes wrong, wind the nut back and put a second (spare) M8 nut on the exposed thread and wind the top nut in so the nuts lock together. A quick undo on the outer nut usually recovers it – although one is still there!

You might want to use a few washers on the heat shield to hold it in place where the bolt holes have enlarged.

Dipstick tube with new O-rings and plenty of grease pushes in a lot easier than getting it out. Clean hands and a firm wiggle and press down does the trick. Get the bracket back in the right place then put the coolant transfer pipe back to right position.
Wiggle the lifting bracket roughly into place but leave it a 90 degrees so you can see what you’re doing. Now ensure the holes are all lined up with a small screw driver.

The b*start bolt holding the engine lifting bracket, dipstick and coolant transfer pipe is a bugger to get in. My tip would be to get something large and blunt like a ½” extension bar, use that to bounce down on the PAS pipe as you slot the nut past the pipe. A 10mm ratchet ring spanner then slotted in allows you to turn the (torx) head whilst you try to line it up with a finger.

Then basically put everything back carefully
 
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spanish_lad

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wow, fantastic walkthru !!! thankyou !  8) 8)


just getting started on it, loads of bits off the car (near undriveable).. and the back two "star" bolts have rounded off.

today is not a god day.  :-\ :'(
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spanish_lad

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not like im using pound shop tools either.. its a draper set :(

any one got any ideas ?
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spanish_lad

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not like im using pound shop tools either.. its a draper set :(

any one got any ideas ?

ok so its the middle two bolts, both rounded off (the back one is way down there, accessable from underneath? ). im thinking about using along screwdriver /pointy thing to cut around the head of the bolt in the heat sheild, then drop the manifold and remove the bolts after with mole grips or something?
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amba

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You really want the heat sheilds out the way as it will be difficult otherwise to get onto the manifold nuts and even harder getting the manifold out of the gap once undone.

Give them a good soaking in plusgas or similar and leave to penetrate for an hour or son.

Use 1/4 drive ratchet and a 10mm socket,if they have rounded try forcing a 9mm onto them just to get them to turn.Remeber they have had many heat cycles so will not won,t to give up easily.Doudt there is enough working space for grips or similar so maybe ring spanner if you can get it to force on.

Best of luck as I know its not a great job to do  :-X
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spanish_lad

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i tried that with an 8mm and a long extension and no joy, so i used  long screwdriver and "cut" around the bolt head. the heat shield is loose now apart from bolt number three. when i put it back together i´ll use a new bolt and a big washer. thats the next job. tomorrow. im going to work now. (different car)
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amba

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Bolt holes in heat sheilds are easily repaired with a large "penny washer" as they do tend to deteriorate around fixing holes due to misture .

Sounds like you are winning so keep at it and best of luck with tomorrows work  :y
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spanish_lad

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ok, so i got in from work at 1900 and had a few hours daylight, i got the heatshield sortof out the way and saw no black marks. no cracks. no nothing...

dropped the "downpipe" off (they are heavy!) and started it up (heh, that´ll annoy the neibours  ;) ) i cant feel a leak any more from the manifold area...

but the manifold / downpipe sealing ring was on the floor.. and its split ??? could all that noise be from that??? could that little copper ring really cause the lack of power ?

im tempted to test the theory by buying a new ring or two and putting the exaust back together!
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amba

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Anywhere that is not a "gas tight seal" on the exhaust system will cause running issues especially at its joint with the manifold and downpipe.

Those GM gaskets are not cheap for just a thin metal seal..around £ 8=00 if my memory is correct from whaen I last bought 1 but if you are going to do the job properly you really need the correct parts.

Unsure just how much performance drop off you would get with a gas leak there but its worth a try as getting the manifold off and back on is a real struggle.

Yes downpipes are heavy especially with original cats fitted..they don,t make them like that anymore..mores the pity  ;D
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spanish_lad

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and is that the oil filter up there hiding behind the downpipe? or is it one for the gearbox? cos it looks manky and burned to a chrisp on the outside. might be time for an oil / filter change while im at it :O
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