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Author Topic: Creaking when turning  (Read 2978 times)

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kcl

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #15 on: 17 October 2012, 08:41:53 »

Kcl, your description sounds very similar to mine. Although to be clear on a minor point, possibly due to language, when you say a stiff "spot" do you mean a small section of the steering movement turning left is stiff, and all other areas are fine, for example;
<................................[stiff]..../\.........................................>

Or turning left is stiff through the whole range as mine was ;

<[stiffer][-----------stiff---------]/\..........................................> 
on mine also add maybe 20% stiffer movement (loss of assistance) across the whole range on both sides

As you say, failing pas pump would give loss of assistance across the whole range at low rpm, or To put another way, less assistance the lower the rpm gets.
A difference accross the range from one side to the other, if there's no problem with a stiff ball joint or similar, can only be the steering box I would think...? No...? :-\

Once again though, I don't know for sure. There is a danger that you could change the box on my say so and it be no different, but if i had to guess, if it was my car, i would change the steering box.
I suppose the only way to know for sure is to change the box, for a known good one if possible.

As for mileage, I purchased my car with 65,000 miles on the clock. The steering was stiff when I got it, and I don't think it changed much by the time I replaced it at 90,000 ish.
I then changed the box from a car I have here with 120,000 miles on the clock, it had perfectly smooth steering.

So mileage doesn't seem to be a deciding factor. Although the car did have a higher ride height, with longer springs fitted when I got it. I wonder if this was deliberate as part of a rough road package or something, and the steering took a battering as a result of driving over rough ground...maybe? :-\ who knows. :(

Thank you very, very much for your comments and help.

My problem is the first one in your drawings, only one stiff spot and all other places in the range are ok. BUT. It is stiff if I start to turn left from whatever position. So, from straight to left, stiff point, over that to full lock ok. Steering on full lock to right and when start to turn left, stiff spot and then everything is fine for the rest of the steering range.

I will be sourcing a second hand known-good box, this issue is driving me nuts. And, even if it would not cure it I would never ever blame anyone on this forum for giving the advice to change it  :y

re the fluid change: I know it would have been good to change it all but only had one litre on hand, will source more and change it all. What is the total volume of PAS system? I remember reading 3 litres...?
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feeutfo

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #16 on: 17 October 2012, 08:52:24 »

Don't know off hand, maybe pas quantity is listed in Haynes. If anyone has it to hand...?
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feeutfo

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #17 on: 17 October 2012, 08:56:32 »

Ps does holding higher rpm make any difference.

Eg, in neutral, hold the throttle to give say 2000rpm. Then turn the steering, and see if the stiff spot is there. If not, I wonder if it's the start of a failing pump.

If its there regardless of rpm, then box.


Very odd symptoms though. :(
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05omegav6

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #18 on: 17 October 2012, 09:19:46 »

Don't know off hand, maybe pas quantity is listed in Haynes. If anyone has it to hand...?

1.3 litres :y
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kcl

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #19 on: 17 October 2012, 10:37:06 »

Ps does holding higher rpm make any difference.

Eg, in neutral, hold the throttle to give say 2000rpm. Then turn the steering, and see if the stiff spot is there. If not, I wonder if it's the start of a failing pump.

If its there regardless of rpm, then box.


Very odd symptoms though. :(

It's not related to rpm, have tried that. And it is very odd, I agree. But given the parts changed, things checked and eliminated this leaves very little options other than the box it self. Looks like a real pig to remove. Any ideas of other parts needed, any special bolts or seals etc that have to be renewed when changing the box?
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kcl

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #20 on: 17 October 2012, 10:39:05 »

Don't know off hand, maybe pas quantity is listed in Haynes. If anyone has it to hand...?

1.3 litres :y

Thanks! So my 3 litres was just imagination, I really don't know where I got it from. Well, will buy 2 litres of fluid, DexII, and flush system through. If I end up changing the box I at least will have fresh fluid in system.
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kcl

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #21 on: 17 October 2012, 10:42:05 »

About the box: I think I need to source one that is coming off a 2,6 engined car, right? Any versions inside this range?
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05omegav6

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #22 on: 17 October 2012, 12:46:58 »

I would have thought that any facelift V6 steering box would do :-\ hopefully someone wiser than me will confirm, but thought they would be the same across the range, after all the cars are basically all the same :-\ might depend if it has the variable assistance (servotronic?) fitted or not :-\
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feeutfo

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #23 on: 17 October 2012, 20:16:53 »

Afaik, it cirtainly needs to be off a v engine obviously, as 4 pots don't have st pas.

Safe option would be off a like for like car. There's a badge on top of the box by the Torx bolt for the damper adjustment. But I've yet to fathom what that badge means exactly. :-\

Haynes covers removing brake pedal quite well, and iirc it covers removing the brake servo too.

And I'll find my thread shortly as it has description of removal. It is daunting, but not too bad a job once you see what's involved.

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kcl

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #25 on: 18 October 2012, 08:14:35 »

 do I need any new seals or bolts from dealers to change the box? Tried to flush the pas fluid system last night... I'm unlucky, stupid or tired but I assumed the upper hose to reservoir is return... Well, I can now tell, it is not  :-[ I removed upper hose, blocked the joint to reservoir, put extension to hose from pump to reach in a bucket, filled res and started car. As it was wrong hose detached I now have pas fluid all over the engine compartment. Really nice. You learn something every day. To fix the car I have found a suitable box for reasonable money. Lets see how changing goes.
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feeutfo

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #26 on: 18 October 2012, 09:50:52 »

No seals, only variable is the Y shaped spacer that takes up the gap between box and chassis. I imagine Gm had a box of these at different widths according to the gap, which might vary with manufacturing tolerances.

Other than that. Oh, I'd advise getting a spare brake light switch. Very easy to destroy on removal, as the Tabs snap off.
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kcl

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #27 on: 19 October 2012, 06:31:17 »

Some progress... After messing the car and my beloved garage floor with DexII I'm pretty sure that most of the fluid has now been replaced and it has made a significant difference. The stiff spot seems to have gone but I will still wait and see for a few more days what it will end up like.

Just wonder why and how the fluid has been cooked so badly  :-\

I still have the plan to replace the box as I do not believe (and can not logically understand why it would?) that the fluid change would cure it for good.

One question to you experts  :P TIS says to remove AC pipework which I am not willing to do. I know it's a tough one for you as I happen to have the steering on the correct side of the car but if anyone  would have any idea or experience on this... And TIS also says to pull the box out from above? Looking at it it can not come out anywhere else than under the car?

What would be the best way to drain the fluid from PAS (other than just let it drain to floor) when changing the box?
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feeutfo

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Re: Creaking when turning
« Reply #28 on: 19 October 2012, 19:26:35 »

Oh, the "correct" side aye? ;D

Think you'll e looking for input from a non uk member there. Maybe try the Cadillac Catera forum? :-\
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