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Author Topic: apoptosis  (Read 6281 times)

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cem_devecioglu

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apoptosis
« on: 15 November 2012, 17:58:03 »

while reading through many documents, I have seen an interesting subject..
 
apoptosis: meaning cell suicide wave that many cells start to kill themselves.. ???  by mitochondria..
 
how this happen ? after a heart attack when cells are left without oxygene.. its an aftermath starting the whole atomic chain reaction by giving oxygene to the patient.. and interestingly not only heart is effected .. all organs.. ??? :-\
 
"The mitochondrion, powerhouse of the cell, is the central player in defining the outcome of heart attacks. Mitochondria contain cellular poisons that are normally sequestered in inactive form, but when unleashed and activated they enforce cell suicide. These suicide regulators are released from mitochondria through mitochondrial death channels. Understanding how the death channels work may hold the key to new treatments that could dramatically reduce myocardial injury and improve the outcome for patients who experience acute myocardial infarction.
 
A heart attack can affect 50 percent or more of the myocardial left ventricle (which takes in freshly oxygenated blood), causing massive tissue loss and scarring, which is known as infarction. Heart attacks begin with thrombosis; a blood clot wedged in a coronary artery causes reduced blood flow to downstream tissue (ischemia). The cardiac muscle becomes hypoxic (short of oxygen) and acidotic, and the energy level falls because the lack of oxygen interrupts mitochondrial metabolism. Cadiac tissue severely affected by ischemia may cease to contract. Ischemia must be relieved in a timely manner or all of the tissue downstream of the blood clot will die. Relief occurs when the flow of oxygenated blood to the tissue recommences, a process known as reperfusion. The amount of tissue salvaged by reperfusion is determined by the amount of time between the onset of ischemia and removal of the clot.
 
When reperfusion delivers oxygen back to the tissue, mitochondria become reenergized and contractions resume. If the ischemic period is short, damage to the heart may be minimal at the onset of reperfusion. However, lethal injury spreads insidiously across the formerly ischemic region over the hours, days and sometimes weeks after reperfusion. This damage, known as reperfusion injury, was first described about 20 years ago. For many heart attack victims, it is the greatest threat to survival.
 
As reperfusion injury develops, heart cells are forced into a wave of suicide known as apoptosis, or programmed cell death. The stimuli for this are a combination of the reoxygenation component of reperfusion and an imbalance of calcium ions and protons that develops during ischemia and which is exacerbated by reperfusion. The targets for both of these stimuli are the mitochondria. Reperfusion injury begins when mitochondrial death channels open and release the suicide activators. We are only now beginning to fully understand what causes the death channels to open and how the suicide process works.."
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3163465/
 
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #1 on: 15 November 2012, 17:59:50 »

Fascinating Cem :y :y :y

Just proves, something will always get us when our number is up! ::) ::) ;)
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #2 on: 15 November 2012, 18:08:54 »

Fascinating Cem :y :y :y

Just proves, something will always get us when our number is up! ::) ::) ;)

 ;D   interestingly if those kind of deadly mechanisms dont exist probably we could grow up in size and never die forever.. ??? 
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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #3 on: 15 November 2012, 18:11:04 »

Very interesting.

I know in the UK in the last 2 years a drug has been introduced that reduces the amount of dead heart tissue following a heart attack and that time is of the essence for administration of this drug. Whether it is linked to this I don't know?
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #4 on: 15 November 2012, 18:13:00 »

and a warning , if you read the whole document you will see calcium and sodium ions are very important for heart and many other biological mechanisms.. if a doctor prescribes you lasix which is a diuretic , slam the door from outside and run away.. I wont tell you why but if you stay you will understand that I was right when you are in the sky with some wings :'(
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #5 on: 15 November 2012, 18:13:36 »

Very interesting.

I know in the UK in the last 2 years a drug has been introduced that reduces the amount of dead heart tissue following a heart attack and that time is of the essence for administration of this drug. Whether it is linked to this I don't know?

highly probable..
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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #6 on: 15 November 2012, 21:21:59 »

and a warning , if you read the whole document you will see calcium and sodium ions are very important for heart and many other biological mechanisms.. if a doctor prescribes you lasix which is a diuretic , slam the door from outside and run away.. I wont tell you why but if you stay you will understand that I was right when you are in the sky with some wings :'(

Quite a careless piece of advice there. It is statements like that which cause more harm that good. Do you think doctors prescribe Lasix/Frusemide/Furosemide because they want to poison you?
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #7 on: 15 November 2012, 22:23:11 »

and a warning , if you read the whole document you will see calcium and sodium ions are very important for heart and many other biological mechanisms.. if a doctor prescribes you lasix which is a diuretic , slam the door from outside and run away.. I wont tell you why but if you stay you will understand that I was right when you are in the sky with some wings :'(

Quite a careless piece of advice there. It is statements like that which cause more harm that good. Do you think doctors prescribe Lasix/Frusemide/Furosemide because they want to poison you?

Lasix caused many deaths whole out the world which even the producer firm also accepts.. its a very dangerous drug and have a very complicated dosage  calculation which many doctors are unaware .. and remember every human body give different response to those drugs.. it plays with the blood osmotic pressure and when the dangerous point is passed you loose the patient very quickly.. I can continue whole night about this drug but not necessary at the moment.. sometimes the drug firms play with your health.. human history is full of those stories.. which most of them kept secret by the hospitals..
 
it also killed my mother  >:( >:(   now are you sure its careless advice ?
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #8 on: 16 November 2012, 09:45:53 »

and a warning , if you read the whole document you will see calcium and sodium ions are very important for heart and many other biological mechanisms.. if a doctor prescribes you lasix which is a diuretic , slam the door from outside and run away.. I wont tell you why but if you stay you will understand that I was right when you are in the sky with some wings :'(

Quite a careless piece of advice there. It is statements like that which cause more harm that good. Do you think doctors prescribe Lasix/Frusemide/Furosemide because they want to poison you?

Lasix caused many deaths whole out the world which even the producer firm also accepts.. its a very dangerous drug and have a very complicated dosage  calculation which many doctors are unaware .. and remember every human body give different response to those drugs.. it plays with the blood osmotic pressure and when the dangerous point is passed you loose the patient very quickly.. I can continue whole night about this drug but not necessary at the moment.. sometimes the drug firms play with your health.. human history is full of those stories.. which most of them kept secret by the hospitals..
 
it also killed my mother  >:( >:(   now are you sure its careless advice ?

 I think one more explanation about this necessary ..
 
when the bloods osmotic pressure changes it doesnt effect the kidneys work alone.. it also effects how the oxygen is dissolved in your blood..  your blood cant carry enough oxygen to your body forcing heart to work more.. plus those ions which is necessary for the heart electrical impulses are no more existent in your body and you suddenly face a heart attack..  persons with insufficient or slow kidney responses and insufficient liver function can easly pass the dangerous point..  even when you were monitored 7/24 :(
 
plus those drugs are especially used on patients with heart and liver problems because all of them accumulate acidosis in their peritonial area..
« Last Edit: 16 November 2012, 09:49:21 by cem »
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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #9 on: 17 November 2012, 03:03:24 »

Thanks for the lesson in physiology cem. Which by the way makes no sense to me at all. I suppose 17 years of training and a PhD wont give me the knowledge that you can.

And I am sorry for your loss.
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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #10 on: 17 November 2012, 04:09:10 »

 ;D ;D :D Hope its not catching...... ;D ;D ;D
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #11 on: 17 November 2012, 08:45:01 »

Thanks for the lesson in physiology cem. Which by the way makes no sense to me at all. I suppose 17 years of training and a PhD wont give me the knowledge that you can.

And I am sorry for your loss.

please dont take it  personal , but there are lots of PhD owners who prescribes wrong doses.. lots of PhD owners who didnt care to make extra tests which is required for the patient to see whats actually happening inside.. responsibility and knowledge is something personal..
a degree doesnt guarantee anything
 
 
and please feel free to correct me if there is any mistakes
 
« Last Edit: 17 November 2012, 08:48:24 by cem »
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #12 on: 17 November 2012, 09:10:14 »

besides, talking specifically about this drug, I read many documents about it and blockage of kidneys never mentioned anywhere else.. and some other side effects.. like many other drugs.. the producer company just sells it.. its effectively a 0 outcome drug may be minus because it leaves the human body completely unstable and worse than before its applied... >:( >:(
 
just an example how many drugs yearly seen to be harmful and later pulled out of market after we are used as test rabbits ?
« Last Edit: 17 November 2012, 09:13:04 by cem »
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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #13 on: 17 November 2012, 14:36:47 »

Again cem you are going off on a tangent.

Blockage of kidneys? How? Care to elaborate?

0 outcome drug? What is that? So you are telling me that the FDA in the US and NICE in UK have licensed its use with absolutely no evidence at all? Sounds ludicrous to me.

Leaving the body unstable and worse? Again it sounds like BS to me. The physiology you have stated makes no logical sense!

A lot of my patients would really struggle with their breathing if I were to take them off their frusemide/Lasix today. And it is not a complicated drug to use or monitor at all. Like every other drug in the world it has side effects and a safety profile. Personally I would have more faith in Lasix than Ibuprofen/Neurofen that people seem to be popping all the time for pain relief.

What bothers me is that you are spouting statements that you make sound like hard facts with absolutely nothing to back them up. You are entitled to your opinion but don't force it on others particularly if you have no scientific evidence to back it up and just use hear say and something you may have read as evidence. I appreciate you may have had a bad experience with a particular drug, but it is scare mongering like yours that cause people to do silly things like not give their children MMR. Guess what, now when people are getting Measles they cant seem to find anyone else to blame but themselves and their scaremongering friends/family. Hence my initial comment on careless advice.
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Re: apoptosis
« Reply #14 on: 17 November 2012, 14:40:04 »

besides, talking specifically about this drug, I read many documents about it and blockage of kidneys never mentioned anywhere else.. and some other side effects.. like many other drugs.. the producer company just sells it.. its effectively a 0 outcome drug may be minus because it leaves the human body completely unstable and worse than before its applied... >:( >:(
 
just an example how many drugs yearly seen to be harmful and later pulled out of market after we are used as test rabbits ?

That statement just goes on to show your complete lack of understanding of drug research and how extensive safety testing is done prior to human use. I think it is useless to try and take this any further with that sort of an attitude.
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