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[Lizzie_Zoom]

So I should think so!

At last, on appeal, a French court has cleared the US airline Continental of criminal blame for the Concorde Paris crash of 2000, two years after another court ruled it responsible.

How the airline could ever have been responsible for the wreckage, apparently from one of their aircraft, laying on the runway and later bringing down the Concorde was ludicrous. It was a pure accident that can happen with machines.  If anyone was responsible it was the French airport authorities not ensuring the runway was kept clear of debris.

A good result for common sense in my opinion.

The stricken Concorde; a sickening sight still, with you knowing all those on board were about to die



 

[Martian]

So I should think so!

At last, on appeal, a French court has cleared the US airline Continental of criminal blame for the Concorde Paris crash of 2000, two years after another court ruled it responsible.

How the airline could ever have been responsible for the wreckage, apparently from one of their aircraft, laying on the runway and later bringing down the Concorde was ludicrous. It was a pure accident that can happen with machines.  If anyone was responsible it was the French airport authorities not ensuring the runway was kept clear of debris.

A good result for common sense in my opinion.

The stricken Concorde; a sickening sight still, with you knowing all those on board were about to die



 

Bang on the money Lizzie 

Grounding a particular type of aircraft (especially one with a 30 year accident free career) because a bit of crap had been left on the runway was about as much use to safety as a chocolate fireguard.
If a 747 was next in the queue then that would have suffered the same fate, but you can bet your bottom dollar the 747 wouldn't have been grounded if things had gone that way because of the financial loss that would have occurred.

[Tony H]

So I should think so!

At last, on appeal, a French court has cleared the US airline Continental of criminal blame for the Concorde Paris crash of 2000, two years after another court ruled it responsible.

How the airline could ever have been responsible for the wreckage, apparently from one of their aircraft, laying on the runway and later bringing down the Concorde was ludicrous. It was a pure accident that can happen with machines.  If anyone was responsible it was the French airport authorities not ensuring the runway was kept clear of debris.

A good result for common sense in my opinion.

The stricken Concorde; a sickening sight still, with you knowing all those on board were about to die



 

Bang on the money Lizzie 

Grounding a particular type of aircraft (especially one with a 30 year accident free career) because a bit of crap had been left on the runway was about as much use to safety as a chocolate fireguard.
If a 747 was next in the queue then that would have suffered the same fate, but you can bet your bottom dollar the 747 wouldn't have been grounded if things had gone that way because of the financial loss that would have occurred.

Agreed

[BazaJT]

Ah,but then you'd be talking of a French court trying a French airport.I don't think so!!

[Rods2]

What they won't admit is that when the undercarriage was serviced on that side, some parts were accidentally left out, which meant that wheel could move from side to side, which caused the tyre to burst. If that had been a UK Concorde then it would have still not have been a problem as a UK Concorde had damaged a fuel tank with a tyre blow our before and BAE had modified the wheel top cover to stop it happening again. As the update was only an advisory, the French decided it was not necessary. So blame the French for what happens and the killing of Concorde as a commercial aircraft. 

Justice has been done on the manslaughter charge, but not proper justice for those that should have been brought to book, the same with the A320 that crashed over the South Atlantic. There was a know problem with the Pitot tubes, but Air France were much slower at replacing them than other airlines. Again as far as I'm aware no heads have rolled. 

[05omegav6]

Continental weren't directly responsible for the bits fallingof their DC10 but for financial reasons they had all their C checks done by FLS Engineering at Gatwick.

That aircraft had flown from Gatwick to Newark and then to Paris, where bits fell off.

Suffice to say, FLS very quickly vanished after the Concorde crash. The DC10 debris led investigators straight to FLSs door

The only reason that Concorde no longer flies is that the French Government pulled their financial obligation when Air France grounded their Fleet. Neither BA nor the British Government were prepared to cover the French subsidy, essentially the full operating cost would have had to be bourne by BA. Something they could ill afford to do. They were also to proud to let Beardy Branson try, because had he succeeded, BA would have looked a bit daft.

But even Beardy might have found the operating costs of Concorde a bit rich

[tigers_gonads]

The A340 that was lost over the Atlantic was caused by pilot error.
Anybody who has ever flown any aircraft knows that if you get a stall warning, you push forward or at the very least, don't panic and pull back.
Imo, it was a case of modern day aircrew becoming too reliant on electronic toys and too much time in a simulator instead of the real thing.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The A340 that was lost over the Atlantic was caused by pilot error.
Anybody who has ever flown any aircraft knows that if you get a stall warning, you push forward or at the very least, don't panic and pull back.
Imo, it was a case of modern day aircrew becoming too reliant on electronic toys and too much time in a simulator instead of the real thing.

I recently watched a documentary on the causes of that crash now the black box has been fully analyised.

Firstly the French Captain decided to fly directly into a very severe storm, that other planes that night flew around; a common practice apparently and pure common sense.

The said Captain then left the two co-pilots on board to cope with terrible conditions. One of those was very inexperienced, but he was the one allowed to take command of the aircraft.

At the point were the instruments failed due to the icing up of the sensors, the commanding pilot panicked, as did the other co-pilot, as they could not understand what was happening.

During this panic the aircraft went into a stall due to lack of speed, and the inexperienced pilot kept pushing the stick back without increasing engine speed.  The plane continued to fall, at, if I remember correctly 3,000 feet a minute (?) 

The aircraft was rapidly descending, and the other co-pilot went to wake the Captain.  He arrived on the flight deck and tried to work out what was happening.  He did not realise, until it was too late, that the commanding pilot had continued to push the stick back, instead of forward to speed the plane up as well as increasing engine speed.   

At their now lower altitude, the outside sensors thawed and started working, but by then it was just too late.  The Captain is heard shouting at the inexperienced co-pilot when he realised what he had been doing.  There was by now no altitude for corrective action, and the plane ploughed into the sea and went straight down.

French airline pilots have been retrained, as well as all others around the World being reminded about how special procedures must come into effect when "flying by wire" aircraft and if the instruments fail, requiring old fashioned pilot skills and knowledge to overcome.

The Captain exercised a dereliction of duty in his actions that night, but of course died with everyone else as a price.

[symes]

Concorde=1 crash=stopped using them
747 = loads crashed=kept using tem
thats my  logic
all I know is bring back Dakota's

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Concorde=1 crash=stopped using them
747 = loads crashed=kept using tem
thats my  logic
all I know is bring back Dakota's

The harsh fact is Symes is that British Airways was already fighting hard to fill it's Concorde's with passengers when flying across the Atlantic.  But nervous American, and other nationality passengers stayed away after the Paris crash.  That made our lovely, iconic, unique planes uneconomic at a time when BA needed to save millions to survive.  BA in the end had no choice, although many regrets, to ground their fleet.

[Kevin Wood]

... Not to mention that an engine on that Concorde was shut down at only a few hundred feet when airspeed was already dangerously low, contrary to proper operating procedures, and that it had steered dangerously off the centre line of the runway before it had reached decision speed. (and came perilously close to hitting a 747 containing the French president in doing so, IIRC).

Air Chance also very nearly lost another Concorde shortly after they re-entered service when a failed engine was shut down mid-atlantic but a subsequent fuel leak went unnoticed until the aircraft was critically low on fuel. At that point they decided enough was enough. No fault of the aircraft, just the muppets operating it.

Now, the severity of the fire on the Paris crash aircraft had probably doomed it from the start but that doesn't excuse having FOD on the runway and flight crew using incorrect procedures, so why was it all swept under the carpet?

[symes]

... Not to mention that an engine on that Concorde was shut down at only a few hundred feet when airspeed was already dangerously low, contrary to proper operating procedures, and that it had steered dangerously off the centre line of the runway before it had reached decision speed. (and came perilously close to hitting a 747 containing the French president in doing so, IIRC).

Air Chance also very nearly lost another Concorde shortly after they re-entered service when a failed engine was shut down mid-atlantic but a subsequent fuel leak went unnoticed until the aircraft was critically low on fuel. At that point they decided enough was enough. No fault of the aircraft, just the muppets operating it.

Now, the severity of the fire on the Paris crash aircraft had probably doomed it from the start but that doesn't excuse having FOD on the runway and flight crew using incorrect procedures, so why was it all swept under the carpet?

Ah that explains a lot mate

[tigers_gonads]

The A340 that was lost over the Atlantic was caused by pilot error.
Anybody who has ever flown any aircraft knows that if you get a stall warning, you push forward or at the very least, don't panic and pull back.
Imo, it was a case of modern day aircrew becoming too reliant on electronic toys and too much time in a simulator instead of the real thing.

I recently watched a documentary on the causes of that crash now the black box has been fully analyised.

Firstly the French Captain decided to fly directly into a very severe storm, that other planes that night flew around; a common practice apparently and pure common sense.

The said Captain then left the two co-pilots on board to cope with terrible conditions. One of those was very inexperienced, but he was the one allowed to take command of the aircraft.

At the point were the instruments failed due to the icing up of the sensors, the commanding pilot panicked, as did the other co-pilot, as they could not understand what was happening.

During this panic the aircraft went into a stall due to lack of speed, and the inexperienced pilot kept pushing the stick back without increasing engine speed.  The plane continued to fall, at, if I remember correctly 3,000 feet a minute (?) 

The aircraft was rapidly descending, and the other co-pilot went to wake the Captain.  He arrived on the flight deck and tried to work out what was happening.  He did not realise, until it was too late, that the commanding pilot had continued to push the stick back, instead of forward to speed the plane up as well as increasing engine speed.   

At their now lower altitude, the outside sensors thawed and started working, but by then it was just too late.  The Captain is heard shouting at the inexperienced co-pilot when he realised what he had been doing.  There was by now no altitude for corrective action, and the plane ploughed into the sea and went straight down.

French airline pilots have been retrained, as well as all others around the World being reminded about how special procedures must come into effect when "flying by wire" aircraft and if the instruments fail, requiring old fashioned pilot skills and knowledge to overcome.

The Captain exercised a dereliction of duty in his actions that night, but of course died with everyone else as a price.

At the end of the day Lizzie, the autopilot was flying the aircraft.
The co pilot was sat in the seat doing nothing more then monitoring the various systems while the captain was in the back having a sleep.
Yes, the stall warning sounded and because of this, the copilot took manual control of the aircraft and thats when the cockups started.
If your flying at 35000 feet then and your pitot heaters fail, then a pound to a penny you will get dodgy ASI readings but its still no excuse for PULLING back on the joystick 

 

[symes]

And ie English please

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The A340 that was lost over the Atlantic was caused by pilot error.
Anybody who has ever flown any aircraft knows that if you get a stall warning, you push forward or at the very least, don't panic and pull back.
Imo, it was a case of modern day aircrew becoming too reliant on electronic toys and too much time in a simulator instead of the real thing.

I recently watched a documentary on the causes of that crash now the black box has been fully analyised.

Firstly the French Captain decided to fly directly into a very severe storm, that other planes that night flew around; a common practice apparently and pure common sense.

The said Captain then left the two co-pilots on board to cope with terrible conditions. One of those was very inexperienced, but he was the one allowed to take command of the aircraft.

At the point were the instruments failed due to the icing up of the sensors, the commanding pilot panicked, as did the other co-pilot, as they could not understand what was happening.

During this panic the aircraft went into a stall due to lack of speed, and the inexperienced pilot kept pushing the stick back without increasing engine speed.  The plane continued to fall, at, if I remember correctly 3,000 feet a minute (?) 

The aircraft was rapidly descending, and the other co-pilot went to wake the Captain.  He arrived on the flight deck and tried to work out what was happening.  He did not realise, until it was too late, that the commanding pilot had continued to push the stick back, instead of forward to speed the plane up as well as increasing engine speed.   

At their now lower altitude, the outside sensors thawed and started working, but by then it was just too late.  The Captain is heard shouting at the inexperienced co-pilot when he realised what he had been doing.  There was by now no altitude for corrective action, and the plane ploughed into the sea and went straight down.

French airline pilots have been retrained, as well as all others around the World being reminded about how special procedures must come into effect when "flying by wire" aircraft and if the instruments fail, requiring old fashioned pilot skills and knowledge to overcome.

The Captain exercised a dereliction of duty in his actions that night, but of course died with everyone else as a price.

At the end of the day Lizzie, the autopilot was flying the aircraft.
The co pilot was sat in the seat doing nothing more then monitoring the various systems while the captain was in the back having a sleep.
Yes, the stall warning sounded and because of this, the copilot took manual control of the aircraft and thats when the cockups started.
If your flying at 35000 feet then and your pitot heaters fail, then a pound to a penny you will get dodgy ASI readings but its still no excuse for PULLING back on the joystick 

Sorry, I missed that point out.

The auto pilot had actually shut down.  When the external sensors became iced up, the instruments failed. Then followed a series of system warnings to the pilots, such as the one constantly warning of a "stall".  Apparently, the auto pilot then could not cope with the non-data and all the ignoring of warnings to the pilot and, as they are programmed to do, handed over control of the aircraft to the human air crew when the computer "decided" it could do no more.  Manual control was then in the hands of the pilots, who of course were panicking and making all the wrong decisions, taking the wrong actions, until the plane descended at high speed into the Atlantic.

The auto pilot therefore played no part in this series of human error, and eventual tragedy.