Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[kully]

I've been suprised at how quickly I start getting hot air out of the vents in the 2.2 DTI (within minutes of me starting it from stone cold), now I'm not complaining, but do these have a fuel burning heater or other device installed?

[Rog]

I can't answer your question, but my 2.5 V6 takes ages, I really mean a-g-e-s, to warm up.

[aaronjb]

I've been suprised at how quickly I start getting hot air out of the vents in the 2.2 DTI (within minutes of me starting it from stone cold), now I'm not complaining, but do these have a fuel burning heater or other device installed?

Yup (certainly my friends 03 2.2DTi has a fuel burning heater - well, it did until the matrix in it started leaking coolant and it got removed and bypassed!)

[Glassback]

I've been suprised at how quickly I start getting hot air out of the vents in the 2.2 DTI (within minutes of me starting it from stone cold), now I'm not complaining, but do these have a fuel burning heater or other device installed?

It sits in front of the O/S front wheel, well mine did till it started leaking, so I uninstalled it and joined the hoses together.

[I_want_an_Omega]

Many modern diesels do. Diesels are more efficient than petrol (hence more MPG) so the waste heat takes longer to build up and warm the water and thus heat the cabin.

My Mondeo has one and is producing warm air within a few seconds of a cold start.

Vehicles made for cold climates go one stage further and have this fuel burning heater on a timer to warm the cabin before you get in. Some warm the engine coolant and some the air.

They then switch off when things get up to temp and the warm engine can carry on with the task. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Actualy, most modern UK spec diesels dont have the pre-heaters fitted, most are a cold climate option pack.

Most of the fast heatup on modern diesels is down to electrical loading of the alternator (to create more engine load) and the use of large amounts of EGR.

[Keith ABS]

My uncle had a VW Varient years ago (he had no taste then!) which was fitted with a petrol electic heater. It was something similar to an eberspatcher that Trucks have nowdays. he could start the heater half hour before setting off, with a foot of snow on the car, and it would be totaly defrosted and toastie inside.
Keith B

[I_want_an_Omega]

Actualy, most modern UK spec diesels dont have the pre-heaters fitted, most are a cold climate option pack.

Most of the fast heatup on modern diesels is down to electrical loading of the alternator (to create more engine load) and the use of large amounts of EGR.

Will have to sort of disagree with you on that one Mark as it depends on how you define both modern and pre-heater. ALL new diesel Mondeo's for the past 3 or 4 years and the majority of other Fords TDcis do have them. Obviously this tails off with age with the "older" modern Fords not getting them - so, it all depends on how you define modern I suppose. They also bring on the heated screens automatically as you have said  - but only when max heating is called for AND a cold outside air temp. The UK spec Fords I refer to have the "supplemental air heater", fitted as opposed to the fuel powered water heaters which are for the true cold climate spec vehicles with timer. Ironically, my MK 4 Mondeo Tdci does not bring on the screens unless max defrost heat is selected, whereas my old Mk 3 brought on the screens on all cold starts under 3 degrees - so even between manufacturers there is disparity. The Mk4 has an air heater - the Mk3 didnt. My 54 reg 3 series had one as did my 52 reg Saab 93. So, the reason I said many is that's based on my experience - which is certainly not most ..........

[Marks DTM Calib]

Your stating large family cars which are far from the large part of the market hence my statement of most 

[dbdb]

Vehicles made for cold climates go one stage further and have this fuel burning heater on a timer to warm the cabin before you get in. Some warm the engine coolant and some the air.

Any idea how they work, is it an enclosed flame or some catalytic setup? Are they noisy? Small? Where do the fumes go?  I'm thinking such a thing might be useful on a barge. Especially if on a timer.

I do remember plugging in a Lada to electric overnight in Norway to stop the diesel freezing.

[albitz]

I can't answer your question, but my 2.5 V6 takes ages, I really mean a-g-e-s, to warm up.

Sounds like they should have changed your thermostat while doing the top end rebuild.

[I_want_an_Omega]

Vehicles made for cold climates go one stage further and have this fuel burning heater on a timer to warm the cabin before you get in. Some warm the engine coolant and some the air.

Any idea how they work, is it an enclosed flame or some catalytic setup? Are they noisy? Small? Where do the fumes go?  I'm thinking such a thing might be useful on a barge. Especially if on a timer.

I do remember plugging in a Lada to electric overnight in Norway to stop the diesel freezing.

Usually. Try Googling Webasto who make them. I know that the ones BMW use actually "burn" fuel in this way. They have a small electric pump as well. They vent to atmosphere so you will see a note in the owners manual to advise of this as being normal in v cold situations.

In addition to these fuel powered heaters there are also electric ones. One type you plug the car in and it warms the coolant with a 3kw heater and pump - so that when you start the car the engine is already warm. Kenlowe make them. They are very popular with ABS members - but have seen no discussion on OOF regarding them for some reason. I had one back about 12 years ago on my MV6 - worked a treat. The other type is popular in cold areas of the US and Canada - its a high wattage resistor which is bolted to the block. You plug it into the mains and it keeps the block from getting too cold overnight. You often see cars in these areas driving around with an American mains plug poking out of the grille. These can be factory or after-market fit.

HTH

[SMD]

My 3.2 Elite takes a few minutes too! I like 

[fergy]

Dti was fitted with an erberspatcher heater.  To answer dbdb's questions:

They work much like the oil central heating boiler in you house,    fuel supply, "spark" plug,  heat exchanger, exhaust pipe etc. The thing is started by air/ water temperature sensors, you have no direct control over it on UK models. For colder climates they are often fitted with dash mounted programmer to enable pre-warming.

In my opinion the reason they fail on UK cars is due to the poorly designed mounting bracket  for the heater. This has a wonderful 5- 8mm gap between it and the heat exchanger which is aluminium. Over the years the gap fills with road muck and salt and erosion of the aluminium water jacket results in leakage.

They can be heard running with the window open and are most audible after you have got out of the car. They run on for a short while to dissipate heat following ignition turn off.

Size - about as big as a miggy alternator but perhaps a little longer.

Fumes vent via a dog leg shaped exhaust and a  small silencer to the atmosphere under the drivers front wing. Under the right conditions they can produce quite a plume. If you get a plume all the while, yours is probably leaking,check your coolant level !


 Re use on a boat.
I tried for some time to obtain spares for mine a few years ago with no luck. I spoke to various erberspatcher authorised agents who all told be the same thing "GM only mate".  There is a visually similar model ( can't quite remember if it is a 3) but the model number indicates the o/p in KW Other info hidden in the model number indicates if it heats air or water, but I have forgotten the details.

Anyway plenty of them around but not cheap. Commonly used in canal boats , trucks, VW air cooled vans&campers ( for real heat) etc and even in many thousands of BT vans, where they also heat water for hand washing .

Webasto were the kings of these things a few years ago, but I think they have gone out of business?

On my old  DTi, this thing would double the fuel consumption at tick over !

Interestingly newer Vivaro vans have four glow plug like heaters screwed into an aluminium casting in the  coolant jacket. Cheaper, more reliable, easier to maintain, lighter, quieter  .... nuf said?