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[albitz]

Ah right,I know what you mean now.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

As a member of the Conservative Party I have received an e-mail from "David" with an attached transcript of his speech in full.

For those interested to read it in full:

http://www.conservatives.com/News/Speeches/2012/12/Prime_Ministers_Speech_on_Europe.aspx

 

[Varche]

And having read that and listened to him, what is your view on it all Lizzie?

[Lizzie_Zoom]

And having read that and listened to him, what is your view on it all Lizzie?

I will first repeat what I stated on another thread:

"I listened to part of Cameron's speech  before I had to go for a meeting this morning.


But I did catch his point that it is no good voting on either getting out, or staying in ,the EU before the flux that is the Union settles down and Britain knows fully what is at stake, after re-negotiations take place that could dramatically the UK's position.

I am certainly fed up with the EU's actions, or not, but I must admit to seeing Cameron's point of view.  It is scary to consider it, but maybe at last he is becoming focused!         

PS I am not going to vote yet as far more data and time has got to be revealed and pass before a considered opinion can be finally decided upon.

The big question is anyway, will the EU survive?  "

Further to that, after reading the full speech I am left unconvinced as, as others have said, it leaves many "if's" to be answered before any meaningful re-negotiation of Britain's membership followed by a new EU package that we the British public can vote on. Cameron is right on all the historic rhetoric, but, apart from considering it is right to steer clear of war between our countries, that is the past.  We are  talking here of the future, which is all the  EU members, including Britain, is interested in.

Currently it is true that to vote right now on the EU does not make sense, as we just do not know what EU we would actually be voting on. A EU of all the countries that are members now?; members who use the Euro?; a more federal Europe, or one that is going to 'allow' for national interests? The decision is vital to Britain's future, and at the moment the facts on what we are voting on are far too fluid.  Cameron is right; we need the EU to settle down in whatever form it is going to take from now to 2017 before making that crucial vote.  Nothing will happen before then, and that relies on one of the major "if's"; that the Conservatives will form the next government in 2015. 

To conclude we all must wait until the EU gets fully past it's crisis; establishes what countries will remain members; which members will continue to use the Euro; what administrative processes the EU will use, and what level of individual nationalism will be 'allowed' by the EU.  Then we, the British public can decide what "benefits" there are in being a member, and how it affects our national interests, fully considering our sovereignty.  We vote accordingly on that basis.  If the EU breaks up entirely, then that will resolve the issue completely.

[Rods2]

Good speech, but words are cheap.

After Dithering Dave's last cast iron guarantee, personally to me it is just another sound bite and I don't believe a word of it as the man is ruled by focus groups, not principal or vision. This is all about trying stop the defection of Cons to UKIP and also the rumoured challenge to his leadership, which only takes 43 letters from vulnerable MPs from split UKIP/Con votes to the chairman of the 1922 committee. 

Same old rubbish about fairness and climate change etc, etc which is strangling businesses, investment and quality jobs. So no change before 2017, just stagflation and falling real incomes. 

Where they have not got to grips with the public finances, when we lose our AAA rating in the next few months and when at some point bond interest rates start to go up, then they along with the rest of the UK's population will be caught in the vortex of this economic black hole, with no escape. 

The EU will then come to the rescue on their terms and their price. For LibLabCons engineering this will be job done, where we will be ruled by Bank Clark President Van Rumpuy and Comrade Barosso. 

For those that want an alternative view to the Cons and UKIPS on the EU, try the Bruges Group, who are the mainly Conservatives pushing their views on the EU, where they are against ever closer union.

http://www.brugesgroup.com/

Lizzie events are going to overtake Dithering Dave as Comrade Barosso aims to have a new treaty to form the USE by the start of 2014 and it to be passed by all members by 2015. So lets wait to see the new treaty and then have our In / Out referendum before the next election. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Good speech, but words are cheap.

After Dithering Dave's last cast iron guarantee, personally to me it is just another sound bite and I don't believe a word of it as the man is ruled by focus groups, not principal or vision. This is all about trying stop the defection of Cons to UKIP and also the rumoured challenge to his leadership, which only takes 43 letters from vulnerable MPs from split UKIP/Con votes to the chairman of the 1922 committee. 

Same old rubbish about fairness and climate change etc, etc which is strangling businesses, investment and quality jobs. So no change before 2017, just stagflation and falling real incomes. 

Where they have not got to grips with the public finances, when we lose our AAA rating in the next few months and when at some point bond interest rates start to go up, then they along with the rest of the UK's population will be caught in the vortex of this economic black hole, with no escape. 

The EU will then come to the rescue on their terms and their price. For LibLabCons engineering this will be job done, where we will be ruled by Bank Clark President Van Rumpuy and Comrade Barosso. 

For those that want an alternative view to the Cons and UKIPS on the EU, try the Bruges Group, who are the mainly Conservatives pushing their views on the EU, where they are against ever closer union.

http://www.brugesgroup.com/

Lizzie events are going to overtake Dithering Dave as Comrade Barosso aims to have a new treaty to form the USE by the start of 2014 and it to be passed by all members by 2015. So lets wait to see the new treaty and then have our In / Out referendum before the next election.  :

We both know that that will not happen.  The Lib Dems will block such a move and so will Labour.

The best we can hope for in the context of current facts is that referendum in 2017.  As for a bombastic EU politician aiming to launch a new treaty in 2015 is a flight of fancy, as the EU's priority is to stabilise all the countries "on the brink" and the Euro itself.  There are other voices around European capitals who also agree on the 'unhappiness' felt by Britain.  They are not going to agree easily to anything at the moment.  The German's as well may be the key to pulling the plug and going all out to secure their national interests, so avoiding any more bailouts using their cash!  The Mark could well return within the next two years, with them ditching the weak in Europe.

[Varche]

Good speech, but words are cheap.

After Dithering Dave's last cast iron guarantee, personally to me it is just another sound bite and I don't believe a word of it as the man is ruled by focus groups, not principal or vision. This is all about trying stop the defection of Cons to UKIP and also the rumoured challenge to his leadership, which only takes 43 letters from vulnerable MPs from split UKIP/Con votes to the chairman of the 1922 committee. 

Same old rubbish about fairness and climate change etc, etc which is strangling businesses, investment and quality jobs. So no change before 2017, just stagflation and falling real incomes. 

Where they have not got to grips with the public finances, when we lose our AAA rating in the next few months and when at some point bond interest rates start to go up, then they along with the rest of the UK's population will be caught in the vortex of this economic black hole, with no escape. 

The EU will then come to the rescue on their terms and their price. For LibLabCons engineering this will be job done, where we will be ruled by Bank Clark President Van Rumpuy and Comrade Barosso. 

For those that want an alternative view to the Cons and UKIPS on the EU, try the Bruges Group, who are the mainly Conservatives pushing their views on the EU, where they are against ever closer union.

The EU have a very good track record of pushing thrugh unpopular , unwanted treaties. I see no reason at all for them not continuing to do so. They may even accelerate their undemocratic plans in the light of Britain's upstart. 

http://www.brugesgroup.com/

Lizzie events are going to overtake Dithering Dave as Comrade Barosso aims to have a new treaty to form the USE by the start of 2014 and it to be passed by all members by 2015. So lets wait to see the new treaty and then have our In / Out referendum before the next election. 

And therein lies the rub*. We will be so embedded in the new EU before dithering Dave gets possibly re elected that my prediction of Britain joining the Euro and being a subservant member state will be another step forward. There will be ZERO chance of a referendum before the next election. 

*Shakespeare

[Nickbat]

The EU is only going one way. The current solutions to the economic crisis in the European Parliament and Commission will involve even more integration. Banking and Fiscal Union will be complete by 2017. Article 16 of the Fiscal Compact incorporates Fiscal Union into EU law by 2017 at the latest. 

We have no choice. We are bound by EU laws, rules, regulations and Directives while we remain inside. There is nothing to stop a future government taking Britain into Fiscal Union.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/2553/get_britain_out_s_response_to_david_cameron

So, by the time Cameron decides he might give us a treaty (if he's in power, that is), it will effectively be TOO LATE.

Who'd have thought it, eh?

These Europhiles have given a lot of consideration as to how they can fool the populous (starting with the Conservative party who, judging by today's comments, are the most easily fooled).   

[Sir Tigger KC]

We have no choice. We are bound by EU laws, rules, regulations and Directives while we remain inside. There is nothing to stop a future government taking Britain into Fiscal Union.

I thought that if there were proposals to cede further powers to Brussels ie Fiscal Union then that had to be put to the British people in a referendum?  and that is already on the statute books?   

[Nickbat]

Excellent post by John Redwood MP on his blog, spelling out the economic truth. Comments are good too, especially the revelation that 80% of our business is internal and 80% of that is in the hands of small and medium businesses. Makes you wonder why the Big Companies are so keen on the EU. 


http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2013/01/24/the-government-makes-the-balance-of-payments-worse/#comments

[05omegav6]

Being in the EU, and the Euro for that matter, probably makes things easier for big firms. They pay all their european staff in one currency, operate under one legal umbrella that applies across the board and also get to cherry pick countries to operate in based on the available subsidies in any one place whilst maintaining free and easy access to a common market place.

Leaving Euroland would actually empower us as we would then be able to negotiate operating conditions for such firms to suit ourselves without our interests being compromised by the demands of other member states thus allowing us to offer much more favourable terms, especially if the Euro collapses.

[Rods2]

Most of Europe and the EU have been hostile to his speech, apart from Germany. With Merkel looking for some sort of accommodation and this in the Bild newspaper. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9823305/David-Cameron-Europe-speech-Germanys-Bild-pays-tribute-to-crazy-Brits.html

I think German capitalist instincts are much closer to our own than many other European countries, I get the impression that Germany does not want to be left on their own with the socialist French. Germany is now our strongest trading partner in Europe, where we are back to where we were before WWI. France rather welcomed WWI and our support treaty as that broke the strong trading and Royal family UK-German relationship that has never been the same since. France will hate it as all their European Hegemony plans will come to zero again, just like they have in the rest of their less than impressive history. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Most of Europe and the EU have been hostile to his speech, apart from Germany. With Merkel looking for some sort of accommodation and this in the Bild newspaper. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9823305/David-Cameron-Europe-speech-Germanys-Bild-pays-tribute-to-crazy-Brits.html

I think German capitalist instincts are much closer to our own than many other European countries, I get the impression that Germany does not want to be left on their own with the socialist French. Germany is now our strongest trading partner in Europe, where we are back to where we were before WWI. France rather welcomed WWI and our support treaty as that broke the strong trading and Royal family UK-German relationship that has never been the same since. France will hate it as all their European Hegemony plans will come to zero again, just like they have in the rest of their less than impressive history. 

All agreed, apart from there being comment that behind the public face of some European countries, there is an understanding and some sympathy with Britain's stance.

Apart from that, yes the Germans will remember that it has been Britain that, unlike the rest of Europe and especially the French, have stood up and been counted in history as we are a strong nation, with the results we all know and love.  We have always been culturally closer to the Prussians / Germans, and we have the same national strengths. The Prussians saved Wellington and his Army at Waterloo against the French, and we greatly assisted the Germans in liberating themselves from the Nazi menace. 

We can work with the Germans, and when the EU falls apart perhaps we can become even closer!

That will stir it!

PS I do believe in what I am stating!

[Varche]

Most of Europe and the EU have been hostile to his speech, apart from Germany. With Merkel looking for some sort of accommodation and this in the Bild newspaper. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9823305/David-Cameron-Europe-speech-Germanys-Bild-pays-tribute-to-crazy-Brits.html

I think German capitalist instincts are much closer to our own than many other European countries, I get the impression that Germany does not want to be left on their own with the socialist French. Germany is now our strongest trading partner in Europe, where we are back to where we were before WWI. France rather welcomed WWI and our support treaty as that broke the strong trading and Royal family UK-German relationship that has never been the same since. France will hate it as all their European Hegemony plans will come to zero again, just like they have in the rest of their less than impressive history. 

All agreed, apart from there being comment that behind the public face of some European countries, there is an understanding and some sympathy with Britain's stance.

Apart from that, yes the Germans will remember that it has been Britain that, unlike the rest of Europe and especially the French, have stood up and been counted in history as we are a strong nation, with the results we all know and love.  We have always been culturally closer to the Prussians / Germans, and we have the same national strengths. The Prussians saved Wellington and his Army at Waterloo against the French, and we greatly assisted the Germans in liberating themselves from the Nazi menace. 

We can work with the Germans, and when the EU falls apart perhaps we can become even closer!

That will stir it!

PS I do believe in what I am stating!

You are having a larf. Should be in the jokes section. True the Germans will be quite happy to sell us their VW, BMW, Mercs. When the chips are down they will look after themselves. Remember they have pots of gold and promisory notes. Britain is bankrupt. Its only saving grace is that it isn't in the euro(yet) and thus can mortgage your pensions for the future of sterling with yet more QE*.

* Where is that new Canadian in charge of the BoE. Anyone seen or heard anything from him yet?  Here is hoping he isn't too busy filling in his expenses and removals claims to be keeping an eye on what is going on. He is my great white hope...........

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Most of Europe and the EU have been hostile to his speech, apart from Germany. With Merkel looking for some sort of accommodation and this in the Bild newspaper. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9823305/David-Cameron-Europe-speech-Germanys-Bild-pays-tribute-to-crazy-Brits.html

I think German capitalist instincts are much closer to our own than many other European countries, I get the impression that Germany does not want to be left on their own with the socialist French. Germany is now our strongest trading partner in Europe, where we are back to where we were before WWI. France rather welcomed WWI and our support treaty as that broke the strong trading and Royal family UK-German relationship that has never been the same since. France will hate it as all their European Hegemony plans will come to zero again, just like they have in the rest of their less than impressive history. 

All agreed, apart from there being comment that behind the public face of some European countries, there is an understanding and some sympathy with Britain's stance.

Apart from that, yes the Germans will remember that it has been Britain that, unlike the rest of Europe and especially the French, have stood up and been counted in history as we are a strong nation, with the results we all know and love.  We have always been culturally closer to the Prussians / Germans, and we have the same national strengths. The Prussians saved Wellington and his Army at Waterloo against the French, and we greatly assisted the Germans in liberating themselves from the Nazi menace. 

We can work with the Germans, and when the EU falls apart perhaps we can become even closer!

That will stir it!

PS I do believe in what I am stating!

You are having a larf. Should be in the jokes section. True the Germans will be quite happy to sell us their VW, BMW, Mercs. When the chips are down they will look after themselves[/b]. Remember they have pots of gold and promisory notes. Britain is bankrupt. Its only saving grace is that it isn't in the euro(yet) and thus can mortgage your pensions for the future of sterling with yet more QE*.

* Where is that new Canadian in charge of the BoE. Anyone seen or heard anything from him yet?  Here is hoping he isn't too busy filling in his expenses and removals claims to be keeping an eye on what is going on. He is my great white hope...........

Yes the Germans do look after themselves, as Britain once did and must do again.

Work with the Germans and we can all move on to better days