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[ozzycat]

OOOH  .. a nice lot of "non-reading", supposition and even a few lies to follow !!  Good even for here .

This poor lady was under the care of a PRIVATE HEALTH COMPANY - nothing at all to do with the NHS - that was closed down by the Border Agency for employing illegal immigrants.

I repeat .. no link with the NHS at all

When closed down the "paperwork" that existed was taken away, at which point the problem may have occured.

It is not yet known whether she was listed in the paperwork and missed by the police/social services, or if the company had simply not listed her as a "client" - That is what the inquiry is attempting to discover.

So why not wait until the facts are known rather than making up a few of your own

What happened was appalling, and must never happen again, but some of the rhetoric here is simply stupid.

just to make things clear i did not mention the nhs i said the council because they have the records of all the old people that require looking after and it it them to blame for this lady dieing not the nhs they must hve been in formed that the raid was going to hapeh and should have taken the appropreate measures to make sure these people were looked after not the hospitals
but i understand your concerns mr entwood yes people not reading the report and jumping to conclusions

[Terbs]

Yes....my comments were made to the general state of the NHS, I did not declare that the first subject was NHS. My comments which I stick with are that if the NHS was as what it was originally set out to be, all care, medical or other should be overseen by the NHS. Old people should not be in the 'care' (said with tongue in cheek), of private entities. Who knows whether the situation would have happened if the home was under NHS obligations. Stafford has proved it can happen within the NHS, so that particular situation cannot be answered
So, as I said, the NHS (mainly its admin) wants a great big kick up the arris, and when sorted, all things medical in this country under its wing.

Another thing you hear is....'Its not the people who work for the NHS, the nurses are lovely'....yes, most are......but Stafford, and a good few other cases raised to the fore, within or outside the NHS, show this is not always the case.

And as to Social Services.......they are the pits !!! We have been waiting for a phone call now for 4 months regarding my mother, and despite call after call, with the usual 'we will ring you back'........nothing, total diddley squat It would not suprise me at all if one of their internal dictats was  'Leave contact as long as possible, patient may die, then not our problem'

As in most things....money is the root of all evil

[albitz]

The man who was in charge of the strategic health authority responsible for overseeing Stafford health trust when it was treating its patients like the Japanese treated their prisoners of war was a man named David Nicholson.He was in the job up to 2006 (scandal was from 2005 ) until Tony Blair promoted him.
He was promoted to chief executive of the NHS on £270,000 p.a plus benefits.He says he doesnt see why he should resign as it wasnt his fault.It was a system failure.Sounds almost Soviet speak to me,but then maybe thats because he is a former member of the British Communist party.He was on the "Tankie" wing of the party,which idolised Brezhnev and strongly supported military action by the Kremlin to crush dissidents within the Soviet Union.
He was the man who refused to cancel the NHS I.T. system which in the end cost taxpayers almost £13 billion,before it was proved to be completely useless.
So far he has enjoyed Camerons full support.Despite the fact he travels to conferences by first class travel,while the health secretary travels on the same train without using first class.His travel arrangements have come under scrutiny because its suspected that some of his claims were for travelling to see a young trainee who worked in his office.He later divorced his wife and married the young woman.She then rose very quickly through the ranks and became CEO of Birmingham childrens hospital. While she was there the healthcare commission delivered a devastating report over a catalogue of patient failure at the hospital.
The result was that two years later at the age of 32 she was promoted again to Chief executive, on a salary of £155,000 p.a.
His expenses claims for a four year period were the same as her salary (£155,000),including annual allownace for his London flat which was triple the amount MP,s get for second home allowances.
Gravy train,jobs for the boys (and girls) ? Nah,thats just a vicious Daily Mail rumour.

[Marks DTM Calib]

A sad case indeed.

I personaly hate the NH (I never ad the S as the service part went years ago) and I would not put another single penny into it.

And why, because its not cash that is the problem and it will consume every penny you throw at it with little if any return.

The NH needs to be customer focused (which its not) which is why I have some support for the proposed GP's controling where my money is spent for my treatment.

[Terbs]

The man who was in charge of the strategic health authority responsible for overseeing Stafford health trust when it was treating its patients like the Japanese treated their prisoners of war was a man named David Nicholson.He was in the job up to 2006 (scandal was from 2005 ) until Tony Blair promoted him.
He was promoted to chief executive of the NHS on £270,000 p.a plus benefits.He says he doesnt see why he should resign as it wasnt his fault.It was a system failure.Sounds almost Soviet speak to me,but then maybe thats because he is a former member of the British Communist party.He was on the "Tankie" wing of the party,which idolised Brezhnev and strongly supported military action by the Kremlin to crush dissidents within the Soviet Union.
He was the man who refused to cancel the NHS I.T. system which in the end cost taxpayers almost £13 billion,before it was proved to be completely useless.
So far he has enjoyed Camerons full support.Despite the fact he travels to conferences by first class travel,while the health secretary travels on the same train without using first class.His travel arrangements have come under scrutiny because its suspected that some of his claims were for travelling to see a young trainee who worked in his office.He later divorced his wife and married the young woman.She then rose very quickly through the ranks and became CEO of Birmingham childrens hospital. While she was there the healthcare commission delivered a devastating report over a catalogue of patient failure at the hospital.
The result was that two years later at the age of 32 she was promoted again to Chief executive, on a salary of £155,000 p.a.
His expenses claims for a four year period were the same as her salary (£155,000),including annual allownace for his London flat which was triple the amount MP,s get for second home allowances.
Gravy train,jobs for the boys (and girls) ? Nah,thats just a vicious Daily Mail rumour.

Course it is, Albs

[Varche]

The man who was in charge of the strategic health authority responsible for overseeing Stafford health trust when it was treating its patients like the Japanese treated their prisoners of war was a man named David Nicholson.He was in the job up to 2006 (scandal was from 2005 ) until Tony Blair promoted him.
He was promoted to chief executive of the NHS on £270,000 p.a plus benefits.He says he doesnt see why he should resign as it wasnt his fault.It was a system failure.Sounds almost Soviet speak to me,but then maybe thats because he is a former member of the British Communist party.He was on the "Tankie" wing of the party,which idolised Brezhnev and strongly supported military action by the Kremlin to crush dissidents within the Soviet Union.
He was the man who refused to cancel the NHS I.T. system which in the end cost taxpayers almost £13 billion,before it was proved to be completely useless.
So far he has enjoyed Camerons full support.Despite the fact he travels to conferences by first class travel,while the health secretary travels on the same train without using first class.His travel arrangements have come under scrutiny because its suspected that some of his claims were for travelling to see a young trainee who worked in his office.He later divorced his wife and married the young woman.She then rose very quickly through the ranks and became CEO of Birmingham childrens hospital. While she was there the healthcare commission delivered a devastating report over a catalogue of patient failure at the hospital.
The result was that two years later at the age of 32 she was promoted again to Chief executive, on a salary of £155,000 p.a.
His expenses claims for a four year period were the same as her salary (£155,000),including annual allownace for his London flat which was triple the amount MP,s get for second home allowances.
Gravy train,jobs for the boys (and girls) ? Nah,thats just a vicious Daily Mail rumour.

Well put. We watched him on TV and immediately wondered why he wasn't sacked AND his benefits reduced. It makes me laugh, the NH ( I like your dropping of the S, Mark) should be customer focussed. Wouldn't you wonder why no one has thought of that before. Times we have been at family members bedside and asked why such and such treatment has been discontinued? Why the patient isn't allowed anything by mouth (been put on path of death without telling us). Why are the notes on the patients charts unintelligible to the family? Why can you never find or speak to anyone who actually knows anything? Why don't nurses do a patrol every hour minimum? I would love to have had a go at shaking them up.

[ozzycat]

  the council are denighing any knowlage of this aparantly the paper work given to them by the police & the care company was dicarded as far as they know nobody needed any care because the paper work had gone missing .it was the nurses at the hospital who phoned the police who are now investigating it as manslaughter because they know that the council wae given paper work because they gave them it

[Terbs]

Obviously there will be denials....its always someone else's fault. I too, could not believe the attitude of that man at the top. Despicable

The whole system, private and NH need thoroughly purging, people must be taken to account for these attrocities. If it costs, so be it. The long term savings will benefit all.

Then the whole system wants re-launching, clear rules, and regulations, with people in high places knowing what the consequencies of failure will mean to them (and I am not talking a slap on the wrist). Independant regular checks on all aspects.
Postcode lotteries for treatment must go in there entirety.......and financial profits plus 'jobs for the boys and girls' a thing of the past.

Then, once again, maybe the NH can become the NHS and rise to its once, long ago, achieved status.

[albitz]

Imo it needs the power taken away from the public sector unions before that can begin to happen.They are strong and militant and the powers that be from hospital managers right up to the government are scared witless of them.

[STMO123]

Imo it needs the power taken away from the public sector unions before that can begin to happen.They are strong and militant and the powers that be from hospital managers right up to the government are scared witless of them.

Maybe the health sector unions, Albs, but certainly not the teaching unions. They are a laughing stock nowadays because the government and senior management know that, quite rightly, teachers will not lose pay over lost causes. Their leaders still huff and puff but the days of blowing the house down are long gone.

[albitz]

Sounds like things are heading in the right direction in education then Steve.

[D]

My local hospital in colchester is now also under the glare of publicity due to the number of deaths etc. there.Im not in the least surprised.Most of its depts. really arent fit for purpose.
Imo the NHS problems are nothing to do with money.In fact I think it has too much money and too many enployees.Its much more about quite a lot of people who now work in it,who have grown up in a generation where public service and caring for others needs before your own are alien concepts.

Have you actually read the Francis report? If not I would suggest spending some time reading it before making random statements like those.

With regards to the statement you make following that, I cannot even imagine that you have met or worked with many thousands of NHS staff that I have met/worked with who care about people and wish to actually help them.

I suppose you must be the only person in the world who is doing a job where you care about the person you serve! And everyone else must be selfish bastards.

[D]

A sad case indeed.

I personaly hate the NH (I never ad the S as the service part went years ago) and I would not put another single penny into it.

And why, because its not cash that is the problem and it will consume every penny you throw at it with little if any return.

The NH needs to be customer focused (which its not) which is why I have some support for the proposed GP's controling where my money is spent for my treatment.

But if you actually look at it closely, it isnt really that is it? Its just the DOH's way of curbing expenditure and limiting GP budgets. which then means that there will be a point where your GP will say to you, "I am really sorry, but we have run out of cash to send you to the local hospital for specialist treatment". Whereas previously they were not limited in what they could sanction. A good example being CBT being taken of the list of services that GPs can offer.

[Terbs]

Whoa...hold on a bit D.....Albitz uses the 'IMO'....meanining in his opinion. I would think he means ' not shop floor', but the white collars in the background. Not saying at all that all 'white collars' are unfeeling, but that is the area where 'profits' are normally bedded

[albitz]

My local hospital in colchester is now also under the glare of publicity due to the number of deaths etc. there.Im not in the least surprised.Most of its depts. really arent fit for purpose.
Imo the NHS problems are nothing to do with money.In fact I think it has too much money and too many enployees.Its much more about quite a lot of people who now work in it,who have grown up in a generation where public service and caring for others needs before your own are alien concepts.

Have you actually read the Francis report? If not I would suggest spending some time reading it before making random statements like those.

With regards to the statement you make following that, I cannot even imagine that you have met or worked with many thousands of NHS staff that I have met/worked with who care about people and wish to actually help them.

I suppose you must be the only person in the world who is doing a job where you care about the person you serve! And everyone else must be selfish bastards.

The HS budget is beyond any of the usual descriptions - enoromous,gigantic etc etc.It is a bottomless money pit,that could never be filled.It consumes almost £100 billion per year in England alone.It is the fifth largest employer in the world.Whatever its problems are they cant be blamed on underfunding or undermanning.
My family have unfortunately had much experience of the NHS in recent times. Unfortunately much (but not all) of the treatment has been terrible.I speak as I find.