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[Lizzie_Zoom]

Well said Lizzie, where is the applause smiley 

Its sad that some people are so blinded by hatred towards muslims that they will believe anything. 

Thanks!    That is what worries me, but as I have stated before in other threads in fact it is a natural human trait to be fearful of what you do not understand, especially if it involves another "tribe" of the human race.  It has happened for thousands of years, and still mankind does it!!

Ignorance breeds fear, then hatred, then actions!!

no lizzie the scum that takes 52 poor souls down onto the underground network and blows them to kingdom come..that breeds fear and hatred

Yes they were criminals, but to hate a whole body of people due to them is wrong.  Deal with that minority as our security organisations are, but let's  not have a "Night of Broken Glass"!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Who said that ? Anjem Choudary.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9875954/Muslim-preacher-urges-followers-to-claim-Jihad-Seekers-Allowance.html

Nothing to do with hatred or fear of Muslims.Everything to do with being sick & tired of this country being a soft touch for Jihadists,who do indeed want to destroy us.Jihadists should be kicked out.No ifs or buts.Its not just one individual preaching hate.Its a trend among a minority of Muslims.At one end of the spectrum we have people who integrate with British life,dont  insist on dressing as though they were dressing to protect themselves against sandstorms,work extremely hard and shame many of us with their understanding of how important it is for their children to have the best education possible.Then we move to those who live seperately,insist on dressing differently,and have a chip on their shoulder about being a downtrodden minority.Then at the far end of the scale we have those who live amongst us,but hate us,preach that its fine to kill us,murder their own daughters if they have non Muslim boyfriends,circumcise their own daughters because they believe that sex should only be for enjoyment for men,believe non Muslim girls are pieces of meat that they can rape and abuse if they feel like it etc.etc.
Those people are dangerous,because they are growing in number in every western country.If we ignore that the future might get scary.
If people want to live in the U.K. they should adapt to the British way of life.If they are not prepared to do that they shouldnt be here.

Yes, and they are the minority who are being dealt with by the security organisations, with the law being used to the full, and no doubt will be strengthened further.

I am glad Albitz you didn't group all the "Muslims" together, and you recognised their strengths in the majority of cases of those living in Britain.  Others on here worry me as they appear to be giving out the message that all of them are bad and should be destroyed.  That is as bad, and is at least as bad if not worse than the worst of the radical Muslims.  We can ill afford a "Night of Broken Glass".  Leave the law and the ballot box to deal with the minority problem

[albitz]

Imo for the most part they arent being dealt with,they are thriving,in this country and around the world.This country should have the right,and the backbone to round them up,deport them and if they try to come back in,jail them for life.

[viper357]

Seriously Lizzie, "minority" ? You couldn't be any more wrong, most certainly not a minority. Are you not aware of what is going on around the world, in North Africa, in the Middle East, etc. muslim Jihad groups in so many countries around the world with their cowardly suicide bombings.

Nobody is saying we hate the whole body of people, you are taking it out of context, we hate the b..stards that blow up innocent civilians. I have some seriously close Muslim friends and love them just as much as my Christian friends, but when it comes to extremists, then yes, I hate them with a passion, I don't hate the Muslims walking alongside me in the streets that are my friends.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Seriously Lizzie, "minority" ? You couldn't be any more wrong, most certainly not a minority. Are you not aware of what is going on around the world, in North Africa, in the Middle East, etc. muslim Jihad groups in so many countries around the world with their cowardly suicide bombings.

Nobody is saying we hate the whole body of people, you are taking it out of context, we hate the b..stards that blow up innocent civilians. I have some seriously close Muslim friends and love them just as much as my Christian friends, but when it comes to extremists, then yes, I hate them with a passion, I don't hate the Muslims walking alongside me in the streets that are my friends.

Good, we certainly agree on that!

As for the Jihad groups; then pull our troops out of Muslim countries and stop killing the innocents in other countries.  When our forces accidently kill civilians in those far off countries it as seen as Christians again engaged in a Crusade, and that just multiplies the number of extremists filled with hate who want revenge.

If we stay out of their countries then we can take the moral high ground and deal with the extremists in this country without mercy.  Until then we have one big, growing problem that will increasingly bite us on the bum!

[Abiton]

Seriously Lizzie, "minority" ? You couldn't be any more wrong, most certainly not a minority. Are you not aware of what is going on around the world, in North Africa, in the Middle East, etc. muslim Jihad groups in so many countries around the world with their cowardly suicide bombings.

Nobody is saying we hate the whole body of people, you are taking it out of context, we hate the b..stards that blow up innocent civilians. I have some seriously close Muslim friends and love them just as much as my Christian friends, but when it comes to extremists, then yes, I hate them with a passion, I don't hate the Muslims walking alongside me in the streets that are my friends.

So how do you quantify the number of extremists?

By guessed stats like rods2's opening post; used for 'gosh factor'?

Genuine question, show me some evidence that is from a believable source.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Seriously Lizzie, "minority" ? You couldn't be any more wrong, most certainly not a minority. Are you not aware of what is going on around the world, in North Africa, in the Middle East, etc. muslim Jihad groups in so many countries around the world with their cowardly suicide bombings.

Nobody is saying we hate the whole body of people, you are taking it out of context, we hate the b..stards that blow up innocent civilians. I have some seriously close Muslim friends and love them just as much as my Christian friends, but when it comes to extremists, then yes, I hate them with a passion, I don't hate the Muslims walking alongside me in the streets that are my friends.

So how do you quantify the number of extremists?

By guessed stats like rods2's opening post; used for 'gosh factor'?

Genuine question, show me some evidence that is from a believable source.

Yes, well asked?

I was going to tackle that next.  I have found this piece on the Internet. Not a minority?!!! I think this shows how small the threat is:

https://blogs.utexas.edu/15minutehistory/2012/10/18/episode-2-islamic-extremism-in-the-modern-world/

Still a small threat though, and all my previous comments stand!

[albitz]

I would agree with staying out of those countries if we could build a big wall around them and not allow anyone to enter or leave.Then if they want to live in the dark ages,let them get on with it.
We werent in Iraq or Afghanistan when they flew those planes into the twin towers though.
Tbh,I feel that this might just all be due to the law of unintended consquences.The mantra of Western govts. for many years was "we dont negotiate with terrorists".Then they did a deal (with pressure and assistance from the U.S.)with the IRA and put McGuiness, Adams and many other known killers into government positions in Northern Ireland.
Is it a coincidence that muslim extremist terrorism has mushroomed since then ? Or did they see that if you hit western targets for long enough you can wear them down and force them to give in to many of your demands ?
Maybe appeasement isnt the way forward in the long term,just as Chruchill always said.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I would agree with staying out of those countries if we could build a big wall around them and not allow anyone to enter or leave.Then if they want to live in the dark ages,let them get on with it.
We werent in Iraq or Afghanistan when they flew those planes into the twin towers though.
Tbh,I feel that this might just all be due to the law of unintended consquences.The mantra of Western govts. for many years was "we dont negotiate with terrorists".Then they did a deal (with pressure and assistance from the U.S.)with the IRA and put McGuiness, Adams and many other known killers into government positions in Northern Ireland.
Is it a coincidence that muslim extremist terrorism has mushroomed since then ? Or did they see that if you hit western targets for long enough you can wear them down and force them to give in to many of your demands ?
Maybe appeasement isnt the way forward in the long term,just as Chruchill always said.

We had been in the Gulf War in 1990/91, the West has supported Israel in it's conflict with Palestine, and along with the Russians the British have a long history of combat in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Not forgetting the Suez War of 1956, and the way we stirred up the natives in the then new Pakistan in 1947, then how the imperialists acted in North Africa and the Middle East in general in the past.....oh, and not forgetting the crusades against the Islamic Otterman's.  Old history?.......yes.  But those eastern people's hold long memories, as indeed do those in the west, and it is easily stirred by the radicals. 

[Rods2]

I've said it before, that there are many hard working Muslim people that are a credit to their communities and this country, some of whom are good friends of mine. They also don't like the extremists either as it makes their lives much more difficult.

Personally, I'm not against just Muslim extremists, but all extremists that like to live on benefits and use this to further their evil aims through violence, intimation and flouting societies laws and conventions. This also applies to animal right fanatics, other extreme religious groups, climate change zealots, extreme environmentalists etc., etc.

They tend to be driven people, with a very narrow outlook on life and are happy to make as many people's lives miserable as possible by trying to make them conform to their perverse and distorted view of reality.

Most middle of the road people in society have very similar aims in having a job to put a roof over their head, food and water, energy, family and friends along with a few luxuries in life. All extremists generally want to impose their unwelcome and unwanted views on such people through fair means and foul.

Personally, I believe the rights of the majority should be defended by whatever means is necessary to do this. It is also important that such extremism is brought to the attention of the public as being forewarned is forearmed and is also important so the views of the majority are known and responded to in sensible ways.

Nazi Germany is a good example of what happens when you get extremists in control through the ballot box and if we tolerate and appease these extremists in UK society, the same will eventually happen here.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Nazi Germany is a good example of what happens when you get extremists in control through the ballot box and if we tolerate and appease these extremists in UK society, the same will eventually happen here.

But we will not let it happen here will we!  We know how Hitler convinced the German public of how bad and evil the Jews and Communists were. Are we going to allow such a voice in British society and politics to do the same about the Muslims?  That is what you and me must stop in the bud.  However, I can see that situation developing and that concerns me far more than some terrorist threat.

[Abiton]

Amen.

[STMO123]

Nazi Germany is a good example of what happens when you get extremists in control through the ballot box and if we tolerate and appease these extremists in UK society, the same will eventually happen here.

But we will not let it happen here will we!  We know how Hitler convinced the German public of how bad and evil the Jews and Communists were. Are we going to allow such a voice in British society and politics to do the same about the Muslims?  That is what you and me must stop in the bud.  However, I can see that situation developing and that concerns me far more than some terrorist threat.

Think you may be arse about face there, Lizzie. Rods may have meant muslim extremists.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I was going to tackle that next.  I have found this piece on the Internet. Not a minority?!!! I think this shows how small the threat is:

https://blogs.utexas.edu/15minutehistory/2012/10/18/episode-2-islamic-extremism-in-the-modern-world/

Still a small threat though, and all my previous comments stand!

Lizzie.  The article that you linked to states:-

"At its most powerful in 2003, all of the al Qaeda branches together had less than 5,000 active members, this out of a worldwide Muslim population of over 1.2 billion."

Yes that is a minuscule proportion of the worldwide Muslim population, but taken on it's own is a powerful force the size of a small army.    Which when split into cells and scattered worldwide to carry on a guerilla war against the free world is a potent threat to us all. 

Sadly innocent people going about their business found this out the hard way in New York, London, Madrid, Nairobi, Dar es Salaam, Bali, Baghdad and many other places.... 

I know it's a cliche but I think that Al Qaeda and it's affiliates are a clear and present danger, probably more so as a result of the Arab Spring.  In no way would I say that they are a small threat and with respect I sincerely hope that the authorities don't share this complacent view.... 

[albitz]

9/11 demonstrated all too well what a threat they can be.The world changed permanently for the worse that day.