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[albitz]

We are paying whatever it costs to have it shipped in from around the world.Surely it would be cheaper to dig it out of the the ground here in the U.K.
It would also stop others from holding us to ramnsom as is currently the case with energy supply.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Personally I think she should have had Scargill (and several others) shot in front of his family and then gave the miners the evidence that he was p1ssing up their backs.Then told them to go back to work and have a long hard think about their misplaced loyalty while they were down there.
I was a young left wing TGWU shop steward during the strike,and although I tried to be loyal and show support,it was the thing that started me thinking that maybe this was all a bit wrong.
Theres no denying that all that cheap coal would be of great benefit to the U.K. currently.

But would it be cheap?  If it wasn't viable to dig it out in the 1980's, why would it be viable now? 

Granted the price of coal has increased hugely since then, but so has everything else.... 

The truth is it is only economically viable if obtained from a very large open cast mine with huge modern machines and limited manpower used. But, coal is the fuel of the past, as I stated earlier in this thread we as a nation no longer use it to power our lives and industry as we did 100 or even 60 years ago. King coal has gone!

The future is in nuclear, oil or gas power stations, with renewables as a back up.  Anyone who remembers the past of almost 60 years ago, as I can and who has the ability of romancing over the past, will recall the dirty air, the dirty sooty trains, and cold houses with smoky coal fires that took maintenance to keep up the heat to heat just one room in the house.  I also remember the pea souper smog's of the fifties and early sixties when living with my grandma in London, or even living in Tunbridge Wells. No one is surely thinking of going back to those days, because that would be the only way of making coal mining totally profitable?    


 

[albitz]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/coal/2012/11/clean_coal_technology_china_is_the_new_testing_ground_for_coal_fired_power.html

[STMO123]

I don't think anyone is advocating mining coal for domestic use, Lizzie, despite your nostalgic vision. China builds a new coal-fired power station every month, and the UK puts out 2% of what China emits in CO2. A couple of new 'dirty' power stationss won't really affect the world that much and, in case you hadn't noticed, we are in the shit.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/coal/2012/11/clean_coal_technology_china_is_the_new_testing_ground_for_coal_fired_power.html

Yep, exactly!

I love this extract from that article which almost takes me back to the old days:

"China, industrializing a century after the United States did, now burns about half the coal consumed each year in the world. The resulting pollution literally takes the breath away. A visitor stepping off a plane after landing at the Beijing airport on a winter night is taken aback by what smells like a forest fire but turns out to be just the urban air. The visitor is lucky, of course. Many locals walking or biking along city streets strap surgical-style masks over their mouths to protect their lungs. The masks often are decorated with snazzy patterns and bright colors—fashion accessories of a society soaked in soot."

 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I don't think anyone is advocating mining coal for domestic use, Lizzie, despite your nostalgic vision. China builds a new coal-fired power station every month, and the UK puts out 2% of what China emits in CO2. A couple of new 'dirty' power stationss won't really affect the world that much and, in case you hadn't noticed, we are in the shit.

But there is no reason to go back to the past from either an economic or social point of view.  China is finding out what happens when you use coal extensively and they will learn eventually that cannot go on.  Mind you with over 1 billion people life is cheap. However it will change one day!

There is no "nostalgia" from me over mass coal use as I clearly have stated more than once now!

As for using coal domestically, that would be the only way to make coal mining on a large scale pay, so it is a non-starter.

[STMO123]

Are you against coal extraction for environmental or financial reasons. If it's environmental, are you worried about the planet or the wellbeing of the British public?

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Are you against coal extraction for environmental or financial reasons. If it's environmental, are you worried about the planet or the wellbeing of the British public?

As I have stated Steve on both financial and environmental reasons I am against the mass use of coal.  It is going backwards, using an outdated dirty fuel that is inefficient compared to other fuels, expensive and damaging to mine, and cannot compete with new generation nuclear power stations.

[albitz]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/coal/2012/11/clean_coal_technology_china_is_the_new_testing_ground_for_coal_fired_power.html

Yep, exactly!
I love this extract from that article which almost takes me back to the old days:

"China, industrializing a century after the United States did, now burns about half the coal consumed each year in the world. The resulting pollution literally takes the breath away. A visitor stepping off a plane after landing at the Beijing airport on a winter night is taken aback by what smells like a forest fire but turns out to be just the urban air. The visitor is lucky, of course. Many locals walking or biking along city streets strap surgical-style masks over their mouths to protect their lungs. The masks often are decorated with snazzy patterns and bright colors—fashion accessories of a society soaked in soot."

 

Sorry Lizzie but thats a classic case of taking one paragraph out of context to reinforce your own assertions.The articel goes on to explain how coal burnt using clean burn technology greatly improves the situation and that China are doing just that.

[STMO123]

Are you against coal extraction for environmental or financial reasons. If it's environmental, are you worried about the planet or the wellbeing of the British public?

As I have stated Steve on both financial and environmental reasons I am against the mass use of coal.  It is going backwards, using an outdated dirty fuel that is inefficient compared to other fuels, expensive and damaging to mine, and cannot compete with new generation nuclear power stations.

Coal fired is better than lights out, and we're getting very close.
I do hope we all realise, by the way, that no-one in authority has any plans to mine coal. It's purely hypothetic.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/coal/2012/11/clean_coal_technology_china_is_the_new_testing_ground_for_coal_fired_power.html

Yep, exactly!
I love this extract from that article which almost takes me back to the old days:

"China, industrializing a century after the United States did, now burns about half the coal consumed each year in the world. The resulting pollution literally takes the breath away. A visitor stepping off a plane after landing at the Beijing airport on a winter night is taken aback by what smells like a forest fire but turns out to be just the urban air. The visitor is lucky, of course. Many locals walking or biking along city streets strap surgical-style masks over their mouths to protect their lungs. The masks often are decorated with snazzy patterns and bright colors—fashion accessories of a society soaked in soot."

 

Sorry Lizzie but thats a classic case of taking one paragraph out of context to reinforce your own assertions.The articel goes on to explain how coal burnt using clean burn technology greatly improves the situation and that China are doing just that.

No, it is still a dirty fuel in terms of mining it and burning it.  China may be able to use "cleaner" coal fired power stations, but now is now and how many people will die in such a dirty environment before the powers to be get around to cleaning up all their power stations? Why not just use nuclear, oil or gas fired stations from the start?  China is taking the cheap, easy option, and in the process ruining the lives of their citizens and polluting the Earth's atmosphere for the rest of us.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Are you against coal extraction for environmental or financial reasons. If it's environmental, are you worried about the planet or the wellbeing of the British public?

As I have stated Steve on both financial and environmental reasons I am against the mass use of coal.  It is going backwards, using an outdated dirty fuel that is inefficient compared to other fuels, expensive and damaging to mine, and cannot compete with new generation nuclear power stations.

Coal fired is better than lights out, and we're getting very close.
I do hope we all realise, by the way, that no-one in authority has any plans to mine coal. It's purely hypothetic.

Even if that was true Steve there is no time to build more coal fired power stations, and it is far better to concentrate on building nuclear or oil / gas fired stations as indeed is happening behind the scenes. If necessary to fill any gap we will import more electric from the French via EDF who are planning two new nuclear stations, as indeed Hitachi are.

There is no need to panic.........yet!

[STMO123]

No....they're not. Not unless the government can guarantee the price they'll get per unit generated.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

No....they're not. Not unless the government can guarantee the price they'll get per unit generated.

Yes they are!  It may be behind the scenes stuff as I have stated before but both Hitachi and EDF are working  towards building the new nuclear power stations, although we all recognise it is never a simple process.  Below is an assortment of indications of the progress going on.  No one can afford this to fail, least of all David Cameron!:

"EDF is committed to securing our Energy Future by helping bridge the potential energy gap through investment in an energy mix that balances the needs of low-carbon emissions, security of supply, and affordability.

Nuclear power is the most affordable large-scale low-carbon energy source currently available to the UK. EDF Energy owns and operates eight of the UK's ten nuclear power stations and has plans to expand two of these sites, Hinkley Point and Sizewell, by building four new nuclear reactors."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/30/hitachi-next-generation-british-nuclear-plants

http://www.nce.co.uk/news/energy/hitachi-starts-uk-nuclear-reactor-assessment/8641187.article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20701474

So, stop panicking, although that seems to be a favourite past time on the OOF nowadays!

[albitz]

EDF (aka the French govt.)owns them because McRuin sold the UK nuclear energy industry to them.Iirc his brother is/was a bigwig at EDF.
No public enquiry on that one though.
There is no scenario imaginable in which the French govt would allow a Britsh state owned company (or any other British company) to take control of the majority of their energy production and supply.We really are governed by a bunch of complete remedials.
Anyway,it will take many years to build nuclear power stations and get them up and running.Current predictions say we will run very short of energy before that happens.Hence the concern/worry/panic.