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[dbug]

2.2 Saloon running:
Accelera Alpha
225/55ZR/16  99W  XL

Don`t know whether it helps in your deductions/assumptions/thoughts but tyres are 99 load index as opposed to your request for 97 but they run true with absolutely no tramling, ditchfinding, "floatiness" or wandering. All running @ 32-33 psi

Same @ 34 psi all round on Elite Saloon and 34 F 36R on Elite Estate

[2woody]

a softer sidewall will be your friend in reducing tramlining.

the road surface is the input, and how the whole width of the contact patch reacts is the key. A softer sidewall will allow more flex and mitigate the surface irregularities.

I have the MV6 on Forceum 235s at the moment - 97W and XL. No hint of tramlining. Indeed, it's one of the best-handling cars I've ever driven.

Prior to that, the car was on Accelera Alpha - again 97W. no hint of tramlining. I put those tyres on my 3.2 Estate afterwards, which didn't change its rampant tramlining.

hope this helps in your quest

[2woody]

as you probably know, I'm convinced that the secret is in the car set-up. I could bring this set of tyres to airfield day for you to try on yours if you'd like

[feeutfo]

a softer sidewall will be your friend in reducing tramlining.

the road surface is the input, and how the whole width of the contact patch reacts is the key. A softer sidewall will allow more flex and mitigate the surface irregularities.

I have the MV6 on Forceum 235s at the moment - 97W and XL. No hint of tramlining. Indeed, it's one of the best-handling cars I've ever driven.

Prior to that, the car was on Accelera Alpha - again 97W. no hint of tramlining. I put those tyres on my 3.2 Estate afterwards, which didn't change its rampant tramlining.

hope this helps in your quest

One might be lead to ask, regarding the set and condition of the estate...? But that could be a little insulting to someone who knows as much about these cars as yourself. But it does imply a fault on that car.


And to your second post, yes please. ANYTHING that helps nail this bugger down will be great.


We may have access to a tyre fitter, btw.

[Lazydocker]

a softer sidewall will be your friend in reducing tramlining.

the road surface is the input, and how the whole width of the contact patch reacts is the key. A softer sidewall will allow more flex and mitigate the surface irregularities.

I have the MV6 on Forceum 235s at the moment - 97W and XL. No hint of tramlining. Indeed, it's one of the best-handling cars I've ever driven.

Prior to that, the car was on Accelera Alpha - again 97W. no hint of tramlining. I put those tyres on my 3.2 Estate afterwards, which didn't change its rampant tramlining.

hope this helps in your quest

See... I agree with the physical reasons that stiffer sidewall would make a car more prone to tram line but it appears that the XL tyres are more stable

Edit: And I also appreciate your experience and knowledge of car performance

[feeutfo]

I would add, I am a cake and eat it type of guy, as I've said so often before. So I will expect to be able to keep my current set up, 18's etc. and have it drive straight. I appreciate that makes the job harder.
 But I know you like a challenge.

[2woody]

One might be lead to ask, regarding the set and condition of the estate...? But that could be a little insulting to someone who knows as much about these cars as yourself. But it does imply a fault on that car.

And to your second post, yes please. ANYTHING that helps nail this bugger down will be great.

We may have access to a tyre fitter, btw.

The estate is the only car I've got that's been to WiM. I've had the set-up re-checked recently, too. There will be something wrong in the front suspension somewhere which is the cause of the tramlining. All pretty immaterial really as that car is now my steering rack experiment......

[Lazydocker]

The only reason I can see for the main tendency to tramline is collective play (if you exclude the potential for the rear thrust angle to throw things off by getting it right). The steering has what, 4 ball joints, 2 pivots, plus the play in the box... Plenty of scope for a little play in each component to add up to a lot

[2woody]

I would add, I am a cake and eat it type of guy, as I've said so often before. So I will expect to be able to keep my current set up, 18's etc. and have it drive straight. I appreciate that makes the job harder.
 But I know you like a challenge.

if it were up to me, I'd look for a problem in the front suspension geometry ( including wishbone bushes ). I know you've had this done and are convinced there's nothing wrong - I really am not trying to start a riot here, that's my professional opinion.

[feeutfo]

I would add, I am a cake and eat it type of guy, as I've said so often before. So I will expect to be able to keep my current set up, 18's etc. and have it drive straight. I appreciate that makes the job harder.
 But I know you like a challenge.

if it were up to me, I'd look for a problem in the front suspension geometry ( including wishbone bushes ). I know you've had this done and are convinced there's nothing wrong - I really am not trying to start a riot here, that's my professional opinion.

Yes, but as said, the difference is, when non tram lining tyres are fitted, it doesn't tram line. It IS the tyres.
However if the opposite where true, as in the car tramlines no matter what's fitted, that points to the car, to my mind.

[cem_devecioglu]

I would add, I am a cake and eat it type of guy, as I've said so often before. So I will expect to be able to keep my current set up, 18's etc. and have it drive straight. I appreciate that makes the job harder.
 But I know you like a challenge.

if it were up to me, I'd look for a problem in the front suspension geometry ( including wishbone bushes ). I know you've had this done and are convinced there's nothing wrong - I really am not trying to start a riot here, that's my professional opinion.

Yes, but as said, the difference is, when non tram lining tyres are fitted, it doesn't tram line. It IS the tyres.
However if the opposite where true, as in the car tramlines no matter what's fitted, that points to the car, to my mind.

to be sure of that you have to decrement the size 225, 215,205 .. if it doesnt decrease car is #1 candidate..

[feeutfo]

I would add, I am a cake and eat it type of guy, as I've said so often before. So I will expect to be able to keep my current set up, 18's etc. and have it drive straight. I appreciate that makes the job harder.
 But I know you like a challenge.

if it were up to me, I'd look for a problem in the front suspension geometry ( including wishbone bushes ). I know you've had this done and are convinced there's nothing wrong - I really am not trying to start a riot here, that's my professional opinion.

Yes, but as said, the difference is, when non tram lining tyres are fitted, it doesn't tram line. It IS the tyres.
However if the opposite where true, as in the car tramlines no matter what's fitted, that points to the car, to my mind.

to be sure of that you have to decrement the size 225, 215,205 .. if it doesnt decrease car is #1 candidate..

If the tyres don't tram line on one omega, its not the tyre. If the estate has a set up issue or fault that causes tram lining, it won't matter what tyre is fitted.

[feeutfo]

But 2woody doesn't need us lot teaching him to suck eggs.

[cem_devecioglu]

I would add, I am a cake and eat it type of guy, as I've said so often before. So I will expect to be able to keep my current set up, 18's etc. and have it drive straight. I appreciate that makes the job harder.
 But I know you like a challenge.

if it were up to me, I'd look for a problem in the front suspension geometry ( including wishbone bushes ). I know you've had this done and are convinced there's nothing wrong - I really am not trying to start a riot here, that's my professional opinion.

Yes, but as said, the difference is, when non tram lining tyres are fitted, it doesn't tram line. It IS the tyres.
However if the opposite where true, as in the car tramlines no matter what's fitted, that points to the car, to my mind.

to be sure of that you have to decrement the size 225, 215,205 .. if it doesnt decrease car is #1 candidate..

If the tyres don't tram line on one omega, its not the tyre.
 
thats correct..
 
If the estate has a set up issue or fault that causes tram lining, it won't matter what tyre is fitted.
 
not with narrow  tyres..

[feeutfo]

I would add, I am a cake and eat it type of guy, as I've said so often before. So I will expect to be able to keep my current set up, 18's etc. and have it drive straight. I appreciate that makes the job harder.
 But I know you like a challenge.

if it were up to me, I'd look for a problem in the front suspension geometry ( including wishbone bushes ). I know you've had this done and are convinced there's nothing wrong - I really am not trying to start a riot here, that's my professional opinion.

Yes, but as said, the difference is, when non tram lining tyres are fitted, it doesn't tram line. It IS the tyres.
However if the opposite where true, as in the car tramlines no matter what's fitted, that points to the car, to my mind.

to be sure of that you have to decrement the size 225, 215,205 .. if it doesnt decrease car is #1 candidate..

If the tyres don't tram line on one omega, its not the tyre.
 
thats correct..
 
If the estate has a set up issue or fault that causes tram lining, it won't matter what tyre is fitted.
 
not with narrow  tyres..

...so much.