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[Entwood]

Interesting comments ... and could someone please define, for me, a "wealthy pensioner" ??

I am a pensioner, I don't consider myself "wealthy" but I do have some savings/investments which others might deem "significant". I also have a rather nice house with no mortgage.

This is simply because I knew that at some point in time I would leave the services and have to live off my military pension for several years before the OAP kicked in to supplement it. The chances of getting a job at 60 odd are not good, so we made plans ...

We saved. When we finished paying the mortgage we didn't buy a new car or go on a cruise, we took the monthly payments that were going to the BS and put them into savings. If we couldn't pay for something we didn't buy it until we could, so we have no debts.

Having paid "In" to the system for 38 years, are folks now saying that because we did not spend the money years ago, but tried to plan for the future, that we should be penalised ?? and only those who threw money down the drain and have made no plans should be considered ??

I worked, paid my taxes, and saved for my future, if that means I'm treated as "wealthy" then I can soon become "Needy" if the system demands it ...

[Terbs]

This country and attitudes makes me mad.
We were always taught, that if you want something, you must work hard for it and you will better yourself. I did just that, worked all hours ( as did wife), was part of a 5 person managemnt that started a company trading £66,000 first year till 18 years later, turning over £12,000,000. Due to the main shareholders selling out to a big group, which eventually went down dragging us down with them, I ended up with nothing. But I started my own decorating business and earnt to live. We have paid off our loans, and the mortgage.....but because we have retired, own a £300,000 home, get our state pensions and a couple of small private pensions, with nothing in the bank, I might add....we are now considered the 'elderly rich', and in some opinions, (not least the governments), and despised because we made our way independantly, I should now forfeit all I have worked for to fund my life, where I can now do what I want to do, for whatever years I have left.
Whilst all the lazy b******s who have had it plonked on a plate in front of them for doing absolutely bugger all, get full state funding to the end.

Yeah, right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Interesting comments ... and could someone please define, for me, a "wealthy pensioner" ??

I am a pensioner, I don't consider myself "wealthy" but I do have some savings/investments which others might deem "significant". I also have a rather nice house with no mortgage.

This is simply because I knew that at some point in time I would leave the services and have to live off my military pension for several years before the OAP kicked in to supplement it. The chances of getting a job at 60 odd are not good, so we made plans ...

We saved. When we finished paying the mortgage we didn't buy a new car or go on a cruise, we took the monthly payments that were going to the BS and put them into savings. If we couldn't pay for something we didn't buy it until we could, so we have no debts.

Having paid "In" to the system for 38 years, are folks now saying that because we did not spend the money years ago, but tried to plan for the future, that we should be penalised ?? and only those who threw money down the drain and have made no plans should be considered ??

I worked, paid my taxes, and saved for my future, if that means I'm treated as "wealthy" then I can soon become "Needy" if the system demands it ...

No, Mr Entwood. But neither should you be unnecessarily rewarded.

[Entwood]

Interesting comments ... and could someone please define, for me, a "wealthy pensioner" ??

I am a pensioner, I don't consider myself "wealthy" but I do have some savings/investments which others might deem "significant". I also have a rather nice house with no mortgage.

This is simply because I knew that at some point in time I would leave the services and have to live off my military pension for several years before the OAP kicked in to supplement it. The chances of getting a job at 60 odd are not good, so we made plans ...

We saved. When we finished paying the mortgage we didn't buy a new car or go on a cruise, we took the monthly payments that were going to the BS and put them into savings. If we couldn't pay for something we didn't buy it until we could, so we have no debts.

Having paid "In" to the system for 38 years, are folks now saying that because we did not spend the money years ago, but tried to plan for the future, that we should be penalised ?? and only those who threw money down the drain and have made no plans should be considered ??

I worked, paid my taxes, and saved for my future, if that means I'm treated as "wealthy" then I can soon become "Needy" if the system demands it ...

No, Mr Entwood. But neither should you be unnecessarily rewarded.

Is being treated "equally" seen as a reward then ??

Any form of "means test" that seeks to limit a payment will "reward" those who get it, and "penalise" those who don't. Thus "rewarding" the profligate and "penalising" the frugal.

The only way to equality is either not to means test a benefit and pay it to all, or not to pay it to anyone thus encouraging self-sufficiency and reducing the burden on everyone.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Interesting comments ... and could someone please define, for me, a "wealthy pensioner" ??

I am a pensioner, I don't consider myself "wealthy" but I do have some savings/investments which others might deem "significant". I also have a rather nice house with no mortgage.

This is simply because I knew that at some point in time I would leave the services and have to live off my military pension for several years before the OAP kicked in to supplement it. The chances of getting a job at 60 odd are not good, so we made plans ...

We saved. When we finished paying the mortgage we didn't buy a new car or go on a cruise, we took the monthly payments that were going to the BS and put them into savings. If we couldn't pay for something we didn't buy it until we could, so we have no debts.

Having paid "In" to the system for 38 years, are folks now saying that because we did not spend the money years ago, but tried to plan for the future, that we should be penalised ?? and only those who threw money down the drain and have made no plans should be considered ??

I worked, paid my taxes, and saved for my future, if that means I'm treated as "wealthy" then I can soon become "Needy" if the system demands it ...

I agree with you Nigel entirely

The trouble is nowadays people are encouraged not to save; not to put themselves out and make provision for the future, like a pension.  They expect the state / others to pay for their needs from cradle to grave.  What a nonsense!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

This country and attitudes makes me mad.
We were always taught, that if you want something, you must work hard for it and you will better yourself. I did just that, worked all hours ( as did wife), was part of a 5 person managemnt that started a company trading £66,000 first year till 18 years later, turning over £12,000,000. Due to the main shareholders selling out to a big group, which eventually went down dragging us down with them, I ended up with nothing. But I started my own decorating business and earnt to live. We have paid off our loans, and the mortgage.....but because we have retired, own a £300,000 home, get our state pensions and a couple of small private pensions, with nothing in the bank, I might add....we are now considered the 'elderly rich', and in some opinions, (not least the governments), and despised because we made our way independantly, I should now forfeit all I have worked for to fund my life, where I can now do what I want to do, for whatever years I have left.
Whilst all the lazy b******s who have had it plonked on a plate in front of them for doing absolutely bugger all, get full state funding to the end.

Yeah, right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you terbert, and would make the same comment as I have in Entwood's thread

[mantahatch]

Interesting comments ... and could someone please define, for me, a "wealthy pensioner" ??

I am a pensioner, I don't consider myself "wealthy" but I do have some savings/investments which others might deem "significant". I also have a rather nice house with no mortgage.

This is simply because I knew that at some point in time I would leave the services and have to live off my military pension for several years before the OAP kicked in to supplement it. The chances of getting a job at 60 odd are not good, so we made plans ...

We saved. When we finished paying the mortgage we didn't buy a new car or go on a cruise, we took the monthly payments that were going to the BS and put them into savings. If we couldn't pay for something we didn't buy it until we could, so we have no debts.

Having paid "In" to the system for 38 years, are folks now saying that because we did not spend the money years ago, but tried to plan for the future, that we should be penalised ?? and only those who threw money down the drain and have made no plans should be considered ??

I worked, paid my taxes, and saved for my future, if that means I'm treated as "wealthy" then I can soon become "Needy" if the system demands it ...

Is that all  if I get to retire at 65 (fat chance) I will have contributed for 49 years. I am 47 now and have worked since the age of 16.

So after so many years of contributing more than you will I receive more ?

Only joking not really looking for a reply 

[Kevin Wood]

I agree with you Nigel entirely

The trouble is nowadays people are encouraged not to save; not to put themselves out and make provision for the future, like a pension.  They expect the state / others to pay for their needs from cradle to grave.  What a nonsense!

That is a sad fact of life. I know plenty of people in my age range (early 40's) who live from pay packet to pay packet, pi$$ing everything they earn up the wall, with interest only mortgages and buying everything substantial on the drip.  There's little incentive for them to change their ways in an age where savings simply depreciate before your eyes in the bank. By the time they retire the welfare state will simply have to support them somehow if we don't want to see them sleeping rough.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Interesting comments ... and could someone please define, for me, a "wealthy pensioner" ??

I am a pensioner, I don't consider myself "wealthy" but I do have some savings/investments which others might deem "significant". I also have a rather nice house with no mortgage.

This is simply because I knew that at some point in time I would leave the services and have to live off my military pension for several years before the OAP kicked in to supplement it. The chances of getting a job at 60 odd are not good, so we made plans ...

We saved. When we finished paying the mortgage we didn't buy a new car or go on a cruise, we took the monthly payments that were going to the BS and put them into savings. If we couldn't pay for something we didn't buy it until we could, so we have no debts.

Having paid "In" to the system for 38 years, are folks now saying that because we did not spend the money years ago, but tried to plan for the future, that we should be penalised ?? and only those who threw money down the drain and have made no plans should be considered ??

I worked, paid my taxes, and saved for my future, if that means I'm treated as "wealthy" then I can soon become "Needy" if the system demands it ...

I agree with you Nigel entirely

The trouble is nowadays people are encouraged not to save; not to put themselves out and make provision for the future, like a pension.  They expect the state / others to pay for their needs from cradle to grave.  What a nonsense!

Many people in low wage jobs are simply unable to save, Lizzie. There are millions in this country who can barely make ends meet, these often hard working  individuals constantly lurch from one crisis to another, taking one step forward then two steps back.

These are the very people the benefits system was designed to protect.

Of course, as Kevin said, there's  always a few lazy breakless bastard's who take advantage of the system.

 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I did not type breakless. I typed reckless...... but with an F

Word filter needs some fine tuning.....methinks.

[STMO123]

I did not type breakless. I typed reckless...... but with an F

Word filter needs some fine tuning.....methinks.

Well...they stopped me saying the f word, so I started saying the f e c k word. They stopped that too
Fickin idiots.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I did not type breakless. I typed reckless...... but with an F

Word filter needs some fine tuning.....methinks.

Well...they stopped me saying the f word, so I started saying the f e c k word. They stopped that too
Fickin idiots.

Yes. But f e c k is a rude word .......f e c k l e s s is not.

[pscocoa]

We have to have a system which rewards those who have made genuine input during their lives such that there is a differentiation in the output as against those who have done little to prepare for the future recognising that for some they will have just not been fortunate in life  and others will indeed have p****d it against a wall.

From my all too frequent visits to care homes to see family members and knowing that I fight tooth and nail to minimise the amounts my parents contribute I would say that a system that provides a higher quality in the "accomodation" standards of care to those who have worked hard against those who have not would at least be something I could live with rather than knowing that if my parents had never bothered they would be in exactly the same place at no cost to them because they had nothing. In this way there would be less incentive for all the schemes that have to be devised to distribute money from the elderly to their families before the state gets hold of it.

I know differentiation goes against the grain for many but you at least then have better choices and therefore an incentive for people to aspire to prepare for old age. I suppose what I have said translates into a contribution from the state to the top up fees to go to a better quality home once you have had the usual rules applied to your income and savings rather than have to dip in even more as is the case today.  So a system of care home credits builds up which can be transferred/inherited (in whole or in part) into the pot of your kids.

I may have lost the plot of course...

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Interesting comments ... and could someone please define, for me, a "wealthy pensioner" ??

I am a pensioner, I don't consider myself "wealthy" but I do have some savings/investments which others might deem "significant". I also have a rather nice house with no mortgage.

This is simply because I knew that at some point in time I would leave the services and have to live off my military pension for several years before the OAP kicked in to supplement it. The chances of getting a job at 60 odd are not good, so we made plans ...

We saved. When we finished paying the mortgage we didn't buy a new car or go on a cruise, we took the monthly payments that were going to the BS and put them into savings. If we couldn't pay for something we didn't buy it until we could, so we have no debts.

Having paid "In" to the system for 38 years, are folks now saying that because we did not spend the money years ago, but tried to plan for the future, that we should be penalised ?? and only those who threw money down the drain and have made no plans should be considered ??

I worked, paid my taxes, and saved for my future, if that means I'm treated as "wealthy" then I can soon become "Needy" if the system demands it ...

I agree with you Nigel entirely

The trouble is nowadays people are encouraged not to save; not to put themselves out and make provision for the future, like a pension.  They expect the state / others to pay for their needs from cradle to grave.  What a nonsense!

Many people in low wage jobs are simply unable to save, Lizzie. There are millions in this country who can barely make ends meet, these often hard working  individuals constantly lurch from one crisis to another, taking one step forward then two steps back.

These are the very people the benefits system was designed to protect.

Of course, as Kevin said, there's  always a few lazy breakless bastard's who take advantage of the system.

Yes, but so was my ex and I but we still paid a small amount into a pension scheme.  We made sacrifices on holidays and such luxuries, whilst giving the best to our kids.  It was a struggle but I knew no one would support us in old age, a pension scheme was the best idea.

We gradually, independently, worked very hard, long hours, to gain promotion and addition salary and find the extra for our company pension schemes.  This is what I can benefit from this year at the age of 60.  I do not see why I should be penalised by taking away any state "benefits" due to other pensioners when we worked hard to gain our "benefits".

Fact of life is you get what you put in. That is your due.

[Terbs]

What seems to escape peoples attention, is that we who are 'well off' ha ha.....have,mainly like me, worked for 50years paying in all that is due. and to get where we are today, we went through hard times, scraping the breadline, being out of work...did I seek benefits, no. Pride would not let me. There were times when we had to go on bended knees to parents to borrow some money to pay the bills. To be frank, its not been pleasant at times getting through to today. We have been through 3 day weeks, strikes, etc etc.
So I think we are entitled to what we have, without being chastised by others, who have still got a lifetime of toil in front of them (should they wish to get off their backsides and do what we did)