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Author Topic: F1  (Read 5501 times)

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cleggy

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F1
« on: 24 March 2013, 16:35:12 »

Team Orders :-........................... Bullmuck >:(

Horner & Brawn talk :- ................ Bullmuck ;D

What is the similarity historically between the crap performance of Williams & McLaren?        Sam Michaels >:(

No longer a sport but a joke >:(

As a long term fan and marshall I will no longer watch this circus >:(
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Varche

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Re: F1
« Reply #1 on: 24 March 2013, 16:38:17 »

Bet you do!

Team orders, seems fair enough to me.

Despite team orders plenty of incidents and overtaking. Even some humour  ;D
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bored bigyin54

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Re: F1
« Reply #2 on: 24 March 2013, 16:38:47 »

Team Orders :-........................... Bullmuck >:(

Horner & Brawn talk :- ................ Bullmuck ;D

What is the similarity historically between the crap performance of Williams & McLaren?        Sam Michaels >:(

No longer a sport but a joke >:(

As a long term fan and marshall I will no longer watch this circus >:(
i always thought it was about raching not team orders  :y :y
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Steve B

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Re: F1
« Reply #3 on: 24 March 2013, 16:40:04 »

Nice to see alonso not finishing
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cleggy

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Re: F1
« Reply #4 on: 24 March 2013, 16:41:59 »

Bet you do!

Team orders, seems fair enough to me.

Despite team orders plenty of incidents and overtaking. Even some humour  ;D

You know me too well  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D but I'll still moan about team orders IT IS A RACE, may the best MAN win :y

bigtimecube.. you are bias against probably the best driver even tho' he's a Spaniard
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Steve B

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Re: F1
« Reply #5 on: 24 March 2013, 16:48:43 »

Bet you do!

Team orders, seems fair enough to me.

Despite team orders plenty of incidents and overtaking. Even some humour  ;D

You know me too well  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D but I'll still moan about team orders IT IS A RACE, may the best MAN win :y

bigtimecube.. you are bias against probably the best driver even tho' he's a Spaniard
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: F1
« Reply #6 on: 24 March 2013, 16:56:28 »

May the best man win is SPORT

Team orders is BUSINESS.

It's a sad fact of life, but as soon as you allow big money into sport......then SPORT and fair play no longer exist.

Nothing personal you understand, It's just business. :-\ :-\ :(

« Last Edit: 24 March 2013, 17:03:01 by Opti »
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Nickbat

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Re: F1
« Reply #7 on: 24 March 2013, 17:39:12 »

May the best man win is SPORT

Team orders is BUSINESS.

It's a sad fact of life, but as soon as you allow big money into sport......then SPORT and fair play no longer exist.

Nothing personal you understand, It's just business. :-\ :-\ :(

Team orders have been around long before the advent of high finance in motor sport:

"Such orders were legal and accepted historically in motor racing. In the early years of the Formula One World Championship it was even legal for a driver to give up his car during the race to the team leader if his car had broken down. In 1955 the Mercedes team asked Juan Manuel Fangio to let his teammate Stirling Moss win his home grand prix at Silverstone. Fangio obliged, refusing to attack Moss in the closing stages of the race and coming home second less than a second behind [2] The 1964 season saw a dramatic finale in which Lorenzo Bandini moved over to John Surtees during the Mexican Grand Prix, allowing Surtees to get the necessary points to beat Graham Hill to the World Championship."

 :P
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cleggy

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Re: F1
« Reply #8 on: 24 March 2013, 19:28:44 »

Well, if I was Mark Webber then after today the only wheels Vettel would be using would be on a mobility scooter >:( ;D ;D ;D
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albitz

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Re: F1
« Reply #9 on: 24 March 2013, 19:57:56 »

Vettell showed his true colours today imo.He cheated on his own team mate.Im no lover of team orders,I think they are bad for pure racing,but he was given them befor the race and apparently didnt argue (as he probably presumed he would be the one to benefit).
The important fact is that Webber believed that once past a certain point in the race the team orders would kick in,so he was victim of an unfair attack.He wasnt expecting it to happen,so was defensively weak.
Im sure he has quietly obeyed this order quite a few times in the past,thus helping Vettell to win his world championships.
Vettell is yet another arrogant,selfish cheat from the same mould as Scumacher (but with a lot less intelligence).
Red Bull need to handle this situation very carefully,with an eye on history.
At the 1982 San Marino GP at Imola,most teams didnt turn up due to the war between FISA/FOCA.The Ferraris of Villenueve and Pironi were leading the race and at a certain point the same team orders as today should have kicked in.
Villenueve had always argued against this,as he was a pure racer through and through.He believed that anyone who was given the privilige of driving an F1 car should drive it at the absolute maximum every corner of every lap,unless they had a healthy lead in a race.
Enzo Ferrari told him he understood and respected his point of view,but he owned the cars and if they had a commanding one two position in a race,he wanted them brought home without taking risks.
Well past the point of bringing the cars home,Pironi overtook Villenueve for the lead.Villenueve assumed that this was to put on a good show for the home crowd,as there wasnt much entertainment for them due to most of the teams not turning up.The lead swapped a few times but on the last lap when Villenueve tried to retake the lead,he assumed he would be waved through but Pironi blocked him every way he could.Pironi won the race and Vilenueve was livid.He vowed he would never speak to Pironi again as long as he lived,and he didnt.
When they went to Zolder a fortnight later,Villenueve was just as angry as when he had left Imola.He was in a very bad frame of mind when qualifying started and was killed in a horrific crash before it finished.
This incident has been borne in mind by teams and drivers in F1 since and they have tried to avoid it happening again.
Rene Arnoux puled a similar trick on his Ferrari team mate (Prost) a few years later.Ferrari paid him to sit at home watching the races on TV until his contract ran out,and therefore effectively finished his career.Enzo wasnt a man who would let anyone think they were bigger than him or his team.I very much doubt Christian Horner is cut from the same cloth somehow.
Ron Dennis was very worried it would happen again with Prost and Senna,and it nearly did.
I dont think Vettell has enough of a sense of history (or indeed right & wrong) to appreciate what he did today unfortunately.
In an ideal (sporting) world,the team should suspend him from the next GP imo,but hes far too petulant and theres  far too much money involved for that to happen these days I would imagine.
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dbug

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Re: F1
« Reply #10 on: 24 March 2013, 20:03:23 »

Yep and remember that as a German, he has protection from on high ;)
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albitz

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Re: F1
« Reply #11 on: 24 March 2013, 20:07:12 »

Which Webber proudly announced during his podium interview. :y ;D
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dbug

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Re: F1
« Reply #12 on: 24 March 2013, 20:12:21 »

Which Webber proudly announced during his podium interview. :y ;D

Yep and when the guy in question was interviewed he waffled like mad ::)
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albitz

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Re: F1
« Reply #13 on: 24 March 2013, 20:16:06 »

Yep.Red Bull have announced that Vettells interviews will likely contain more horse shit than Tescos burgers contain horse meat.What a nobhead. ::)
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Re: F1
« Reply #14 on: 24 March 2013, 21:09:29 »

Vettell showed his true colours today imo.He cheated on his own team mate.Im no lover of team orders,I think they are bad for pure racing,but he was given them befor the race and apparently didnt argue (as he probably presumed he would be the one to benefit).
The important fact is that Webber believed that once past a certain point in the race the team orders would kick in,so he was victim of an unfair attack.He wasnt expecting it to happen,so was defensively weak.
Im sure he has quietly obeyed this order quite a few times in the past,thus helping Vettell to win his world championships.
Vettell is yet another arrogant,selfish cheat from the same mould as Scumacher (but with a lot less intelligence).
Red Bull need to handle this situation very carefully,with an eye on history.
At the 1982 San Marino GP at Imola,most teams didnt turn up due to the war between FISA/FOCA.The Ferraris of Villenueve and Pironi were leading the race and at a certain point the same team orders as today should have kicked in.
Villenueve had always argued against this,as he was a pure racer through and through.He believed that anyone who was given the privilige of driving an F1 car should drive it at the absolute maximum every corner of every lap,unless they had a healthy lead in a race.
Enzo Ferrari told him he understood and respected his point of view,but he owned the cars and if they had a commanding one two position in a race,he wanted them brought home without taking risks.
Well past the point of bringing the cars home,Pironi overtook Villenueve for the lead.Villenueve assumed that this was to put on a good show for the home crowd,as there wasnt much entertainment for them due to most of the teams not turning up.The lead swapped a few times but on the last lap when Villenueve tried to retake the lead,he assumed he would be waved through but Pironi blocked him every way he could.Pironi won the race and Vilenueve was livid.He vowed he would never speak to Pironi again as long as he lived,and he didnt.
When they went to Zolder a fortnight later,Villenueve was just as angry as when he had left Imola.He was in a very bad frame of mind when qualifying started and was killed in a horrific crash before it finished.
This incident has been borne in mind by teams and drivers in F1 since and they have tried to avoid it happening again.
Rene Arnoux puled a similar trick on his Ferrari team mate (Prost) a few years later.Ferrari paid him to sit at home watching the races on TV until his contract ran out,and therefore effectively finished his career.Enzo wasnt a man who would let anyone think they were bigger than him or his team.I very much doubt Christian Horner is cut from the same cloth somehow.
Ron Dennis was very worried it would happen again with Prost and Senna,and it nearly did.
I dont think Vettell has enough of a sense of history (or indeed right & wrong) to appreciate what he did today unfortunately.
In an ideal (sporting) world,the team should suspend him from the next GP imo,but hes far too petulant and theres  far too much money involved for that to happen these days I would imagine.
he only done what he supposed to . and that was race . and not follow a rule dont overtake when told not to . that f1 is gone boring  :y ;D
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