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[Lizzie_Zoom]

The biggest mistake made was by Labour with their nationalization. Once you lose market force solutions, you either legally steal money off people to subsidize something and in Labour's case give in to their paymaster unions, which is why train drivers earn much more than drivers in private bus companies.

Once a company is in public ownership then there is no rational efficient allocation of capital. Is is all done for political reasons. BT was another classic example of this, where you had to wait years for a phone line, once they were privatized and had competition, then they had to raise money to invest, compete and survive.

What they should have done, if the branch lines were so viable, is privatise them and let imaginative entrepreneurs, cut costs and market them effectively, which is what the tourist / preservation societies have done.

Personally, I don't think the railways should be a subsidised form of transport. Make it work or turn them into motorways seems a sensible way forward to me.

As usual Rods2, you have hit the nail on the head. From a financial point of view a fresh approach should have been exercised in running the railways, after two big mistakes had been made.

1/ The railways should never have been nationalised in 1948 as The Big Four could/ would have successfully run their systems IF the Labour government had paid the railways the true market value of using their services during WW2.

2/ The 1955 Modernisation Plan had been constructed in a way that really got to grips with the true value of the railway and laid down sensible, imaginative, and viable plans for the future. It in fact was a failure of policy making by the then Conservative government, which required much later tinkering and ham fisted adjustments. We ended up with a shambles of a plan, that resulted in the acts made by Dr. Beeching.

 

[Shackeng]

The biggest mistake made was by Labour with their nationalization.

You really think so Rod ... perhaps you'd like to quantify that statement ... 'cos I'm 'all ears' here ... 




Off topic maybe, but:

in Labour's case give in to their paymaster unions, which is why train drivers earn much more than drivers in private bus companies.

Another misguided/misleading statement ...

The Trade Unions learned from the aftermath of the privatisation of the bus industry, and was my own reason for leaving after nearly 25 years service - the first half of that period being in the good days of NBC; with a reasonable wage/conditions and a decent pension. The latter half saw managers become directors, who then often became millionaires - at the expense of my pay packet and pension, which was frozen at privatisation. Privatisation of the rail industry saw BR pensions 'carried over' to individual TOCs ... in simple terms, the staff didn't lose out.

Bus driver: Around £18k per annum for a 40-hour basic 5-day week
Train driver: Generally upwards of £40k basic per annum for a 35-hour 4-day week in many cases

Given the choice (as I was fortunate enough to be given) which position would you choose?

As an aside, my mate next door was the BR Director who fought for this and got it through against the Government's wishes (surprise surprise!)

[Rods2]

The biggest mistake made was by Labour with their nationalization.

You really think so Rod ... perhaps you'd like to quantify that statement ... 'cos I'm 'all ears' here ... 




Off topic maybe, but:

in Labour's case give in to their paymaster unions, which is why train drivers earn much more than drivers in private bus companies.

Another misguided/misleading statement ...

The Trade Unions learned from the aftermath of the privatisation of the bus industry, and was my own reason for leaving after nearly 25 years service - the first half of that period being in the good days of NBC; with a reasonable wage/conditions and a decent pension. The latter half saw managers become directors, who then often became millionaires - at the expense of my pay packet and pension, which was frozen at privatisation. Privatisation of the rail industry saw BR pensions 'carried over' to individual TOCs ... in simple terms, the staff didn't lose out.

Bus driver: Around £18k per annum for a 40-hour basic 5-day week
Train driver: Generally upwards of £40k basic per annum for a 35-hour 4-day week in many cases

Given the choice (as I was fortunate enough to be given) which position would you choose?

Go with the money is never a bad piece of advice. My brother while a bus driver had started buying and selling stuff to make money on the side and he had the foresight to see what was going to happen, so he left and started his own shop, which he still runs. What he started selling to what he sells now is completely different, where he changed the ranges of goods until he made a good living.

[Rods2]

The biggest mistake made was by Labour with their nationalization. Once you lose market force solutions, you either legally steal money off people to subsidize something and in Labour's case give in to their paymaster unions, which is why train drivers earn much more than drivers in private bus companies.

Once a company is in public ownership then there is no rational efficient allocation of capital. Is is all done for political reasons. BT was another classic example of this, where you had to wait years for a phone line, once they were privatized and had competition, then they had to raise money to invest, compete and survive.

What they should have done, if the branch lines were so viable, is privatise them and let imaginative entrepreneurs, cut costs and market them effectively, which is what the tourist / preservation societies have done.

Personally, I don't think the railways should be a subsidised form of transport. Make it work or turn them into motorways seems a sensible way forward to me.

As usual Rods2, you have hit the nail on the head. From a financial point of view a fresh approach should have been exercised in running the railways, after two big mistakes had been made.

1/ The railways should never have been nationalised in 1948 as The Big Four could/ would have successfully run their systems IF the Labour government had paid the railways the true market value of using their services during WW2.

2/ The 1955 Modernisation Plan had been constructed in a way that really got to grips with the true value of the railway and laid down sensible, imaginative, and viable plans for the future. It in fact was a failure of policy making by the then Conservative government, which required much later tinkering and ham fisted adjustments. We ended up with a shambles of a plan, that resulted in the acts made by Dr. Beeching.

 

Privatization with many companies running trains in competition on lines was a good concept but was very badly implemented but with a few sensible changes it could have been made to work very well. If it had been we would now all be benefiting from cheaper fares.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think some cuts probably had to be made to the network as car ownership after WW2 became more common, but Dr Beeching's axe was particularly savage!!! 

Our little town on the West Dorset coast had a branch line to the main Exeter to London Waterloo line which is 5 miles away, if it was still in existence today I really can't see many people using it as the mainline station is 15 minutes by car. 

Having said that it would have been an ideal tourist steamtrain line as the route winds it's way through some very pretty countryside and a one point over a viaduct to end up at the seaside.  Sadly this will never happen as quite alot of the line has been sold off. 

Thinking about it we should bring back Dr Beeching to sort out the welfare state!!