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[terry paget]

I bought an ex Thames Valley police 3.2 manual Omega at Witney auctions March 2006, mileage 130000. The service record showed clutch changes at 33791, 49274, new flywheel at 70402, clutch at 72515 and again at 116350. In March 2010, 157900 miles, I detected slight clutch(?) slip, so gave the car to the wife and used my 2.5 petrol estate Omega myself. Wife never complained of clutch slip. Swopped back this March, mileage on 3.2 is now 171792. After 500 miles I have yet to detect clutch slip. I conclude the clutch is OK and the dual mass flywheel slips occasionally.

Do you agree?

[sassanach]

nope!! i dual mass flywheel cannot "slip" only a clutch can do that.

[GmasterT]

yeah, strictly clutch

[terry paget]

Thanks to sassanach and GmasterT for advice.

I only asked because this car has behaved strangely. I have had many cars since 1957 and had many a clutch go. Once they begin to slip they rapidly get worse and become undriveable. Two of my Senators had clutch slip, and within 500 miles they were useless. I scrapped them, cost of repair being more than their value.

This Omega is different. It has got no worse in three years and 15000 miles. Also I read in Haynes that it has a dual mass flywheel, a device more often used in diesel engined cars to smoothen the transmission. I read on Wikipedia that DMFs can slip. Hence my conclusion that my car may be suffering from DMF slip.

Terry

[Marks DTM Calib]

DMF cant slip.

It may be worth bleeding the clutch system (easiest method is to force brake fluid in through the bleed nipple)

[terry paget]

Thank you Gentlemen. I bow to your greater wisdom. It's just that the clutch is taking a long while to die.
I paste a clip from CDX textbook on DMFs. The simpler variety can slip. as you read. Of course I do not know what variety is fitted to the Omega, or indeed why Opel thought a petrol V6 warranted one.

'There is a friction ring located between the inner and outer flywheel that allows the inner and outer flywheel to slip. This feature is designed to alleviate any damage to the transmission when torque loads exceed the vehicle rating of the transmission. The friction ring is the weak spot in the system and can wear out if excessive engine torque loads are applied through it. The system also has a center support bearing that carries the load between the inner and outer flywheel, and is fitted with damper springs to absorb shocks.'

[2woody]

yes, DMFs can slip as the plate and/or the viscous material wears out.

BUT - the damping movement only goes round 20 degrees at the very most. after that, there's a hard stop preventing any further movement.

when you're driving it, it certainly doesn't feel like clutch slip, more like a severe vibration with a load of clonks

[Mr Gav]

I can`t believe you scrapped two Senators due to clutch slip 

[terry paget]

Thanks 2woody. I did wonder exactly how DMFs behave when they slip. My fault is clearly clutch slip. It is still very rare. It only occurs at full throttle 4th gear at 30mph.; rpm creeps up more than speed; bit less throttle, revs fall back and settle down. At higher revs it does not slip.

I shall carry on and see what develops. I thought it would fail in the last three years, but it never did.

[terry paget]

Hi Mr Gav. In 2005 I could buy an M reg Senator 24V in good condition with new MOT for £200. I could get £120 scrap for a dead one. I was quoted £750 to change a clutch. Senators were fine cars, but they had their problems, mainly head gasket failure, damp distributors and timing chains. I find Omegas less trouble, though V6s harder to work on - bonnets too crowded.

[Nick W]

I can`t believe you scrapped two Senators due to clutch slip 

Why? It's the natural end for an old, expensive to own car. They're always one big bill away from the scrapyard, no matter how good a car they are.