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[feeutfo]

Yes i was asking about the spin on (not the cap for the paper filter as oe)

So chain wrench, strap type tools. I've used those and they are a bloody nuisance when there's loads of space, never mind when there's one click of room on a decent ratchet as with the cap.

Plus if spin on is punctured with a screw driver to remove the old one, then there's a problem with the new one not fitting/buggered threads/incorrect part, your stuffed, as the old one can't be refitted as a get by.

Nah, stick with the oe canister cap and paper filter one IMO. As AndyP says.

The chain wrench I've used to remove stubborn ones takes a 1/2" square extension so ratchet well clear of cartridge - ie plenty of space.

Threaded part of cartridge only extends 1/2" to 1" max into cartridge so plenty of space to use old mucky method and whack a screwdriver through without any potential damage to any threads.  As said not sensible to consider refitting an old filter cartridge though

of course its not(sensible to re fit the old) but if the old ones punctured, and the new one doesn't fit, you have no car.

Most of the spin ons have the same thread, differing only in capacity, so in an emergency an incorrect one could well fit.

Moral is get the correct one - you'd order the correct shockers or springs wouldn't you?

As for your car being "incapacitated", surely you've got a friend who would help out 

Agreed though keep to the paper type if its not bu**ered

Can think of at least two I had with faulty threads, and I haven't had that many cars with the spin on filter.

Nobody intends to order the wrong one. Nobody intends to supply the wrong one. But it happens.

Incapacitated depends on circumstances, it might be inconvenient, it might not.

Point is, keep your options open. Save money on tools. And leave the damn thing alone.

[dbug]

My chain wrench cost 2/10ths of fa, and has proved useful over the years in helping others on oil filters and other items.

Agree though that if you have the paper element type filter, and its still fully functional, its not worth changing over.  Have this type on current Estate, and had no probs changing filter, had spin ons on the two previous Elites, and apart from my first oil change when they were b*ggers to get off, had no issues on subsequent filter changes.

[feeutfo]

My chain wrench cost 2/10ths of fa, and has proved useful over the years in helping others on oil filters and other items.

Agree though that if you have the paper element type filter, and its still fully functional, its not worth changing over.  Have this type on current Estate, and had no probs changing filter, had spin ons on the two previous Elites, and apart from my first oil change when they were b*ggers to get off, had no issues on subsequent filter changes.

Are we agreeing...? Bugger that, convert them, paper filters are shite.

[dbug]

My chain wrench cost 2/10ths of fa, and has proved useful over the years in helping others on oil filters and other items.

Agree though that if you have the paper element type filter, and its still fully functional, its not worth changing over.  Have this type on current Estate, and had no probs changing filter, had spin ons on the two previous Elites, and apart from my first oil change when they were b*ggers to get off, had no issues on subsequent filter changes.

Are we agreeing...? Bugger that, convert them, paper filters are shite.

 

[TheBoy]

I use oil filter pliers to remove stubborn spin on filters.

Last oil change on the bullet, the dealer supplied VOF93 was faulty. Dealer shut. As it happened, I'd bought 2, so no issue, but its perfectly possible that the old filter would have had to have gone back on if I didn't.

Very little difference in cost between GM spin on and GM element, the element is more efficient, and far less messy to change. No brainer 

[Nick W]

Very little difference in cost between GM spin on and GM element, the element is more efficient, and far less messy to change. No brainer 

Care to elaborate on that? If you cut a spin on filter open(everybody does that to check on how well and what it's filtering, don't they?) you'll find the same paper type element inside. The only real difference is packaging/convenience. Personally, I'll stick with spin-ons as I find them quicker/easier/tidier to change.

[feeutfo]

I wonder what's the next contentious issue dbdb will post up? We've had tyres, oil, filter.

What's next, lowering?

[TheBoy]

Very little difference in cost between GM spin on and GM element, the element is more efficient, and far less messy to change. No brainer 

Care to elaborate on that? If you cut a spin on filter open(everybody does that to check on how well and what it's filtering, don't they?) you'll find the same paper type element inside. The only real difference is packaging/convenience. Personally, I'll stick with spin-ons as I find them quicker/easier/tidier to change.

Its supposed to have a larger surface area

Note, I haven't bothered unfolding both types...

[dbdb]

I wonder what's the next contentious issue dbdb will post up? We've had tyres, oil, filter.

What's next, lowering?

Why don't you play the ball instead of the man? They weren't contentious when I put them up.  The oil one hadn't been done for 5 years and oils have changed in that time (though some members haven't), tyres was your contention I believe and this thread wasn't contentious at all until certain people joined in. 

Incidentally I find it hard to believe the paper filters have a larger surface area since I am sure they have a significantly smaller diameter than the spin ons but I can't be arsed to check it - I have resigned myself to reading the (thankfully) occasional bizarre claim stated as absolute gospel here.  Besides if you question the claim the play swiftly moves to the man I have found. 

[feeutfo]

Oh yes, paint as well. Your sig reminded me.


So what's the verdict dbdb? Spin on or keep the canister cap/paper job?

[dbdb]

So what's the verdict dbdb? Spin on or keep the canister cap/paper job?

When I started the thread I didn't realise it was an issue, the OOF article on changing to spin on led me to think it was accepted wisdom but here you can never tell.  It always has and still does seem obvious to me that spin on is easier, cheaper, more reliable and will cause less trouble.  I also suspect spin on filters have larger surface area and filter better. But I suppose its like vinyl v CD or round earth v flat earth, not everyone agrees on everything.

[TheBoy]

Come on boys and girls, play nicely in the playground. If you want to measure your manhood, there are plenty of other suitable sites. Merci.

If you are posting in such a way that you're making out something is based on fact, try to base it on your own experience

I currently have 2 V6 Omegas, one with spin on, other with cartridge.  Would I change the cartridge to spin on? Unlikely. Would I change the spin on to cartridge? Maybe, not sure if its worth the effort/cost for a slightly easier and cleaner oil change.

[dbug]

Remember reading on a Vx Bulletin or TIS that the V6 filter was upgraded from the spin on on the earlier models to the later paper filter for improved filtering efficiency (around 1999 I think).

Believe the Omega howto on conversion back to spin off came about as a cheap way of dealing with the increasing number of broken filter body/tops that were being reported at that time.

[dbdb]

dbug perhaps you can locate that bulletin you recall.   

In the 1990s, car makers began to shift back in favor of replaceable-element filter construction, to improving their recycling and sustainability figures - no steel is used for the life of the car for oil changes if a paper element is used.  Typically such calculations by bean counters and legislators takes no account of the extra labour, spillage, seized lids and mess of the paper element. The fact that the paper ones cost much less to make but cost more to buy may be a factor too. 

Re filtration I do not have the paper element to hand now but when I had the two together I'm sure the paper in the spin on had a large diameter and I think similar length, perhaps someone can measure a paper cartridge and we can compare.  If I am right the spin on almost certainly filters better.  I suppose its possible GM GM shrank particle size spec  in which case the paper ones are going to clog a lot sooner. 

Anyway any saving in wear due to such a small change in filtration is surely going to be trivial especially if you change your oil and filter regularly.