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Author Topic: Trailer towing advice  (Read 7025 times)

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Lazydocker

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #15 on: 13 May 2008, 09:26:11 »
I think you're getting there but... If the trailer you're going to tow isn't plated I think you are asking for trouble... If it's home made then I've noticed that the police are getting more suspicious and starting to check them over more thoroughly!!

Having said all that, you may be fine! I'm just confused over the towing rights on the cat B entitlement!?  :-/ :-/
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platty

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #16 on: 13 May 2008, 09:34:03 »
It is a fine trailer, somewhere between home made and professional job. Was mad on a jig, fully galvanised and weather boarded. I have no worries about them assessing the quality of it - just the fact that it isn't plated.

Either way I shall take it steady and see how we get on.

Thanks for everyone's input so far, I have learnt a lot about towing!!
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Entwood

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #17 on: 13 May 2008, 09:38:36 »
I would tend to agree with most of those figures ..

Remember these are all MAXIMUM figures, so there is room for manouvre... if the car is not at max of 2245 -- ie say its 2100 .. then the trailer can go to 3845-2100 = 1745 ..  legal for towing .. but NOT for a B licence !

In your case with a max licence weight (train) of 3500 you have less room to play with but the idea is the same, just ensure that if you are trying to reduce car weight so you can use a larger trailer weight to stay within the 3500 that the trailer is always less than the car - shouldn't be a problem using a Miggy normally - but I just want to make the point...(theoretically you can bust this one .. 3500 - car at 1700 = trailer could be 1800 ... not good  !! :(  )

Quote
So as long as my trailers MAM is under 1255kgs (3500 - 2245) I should be ok?

If you stick to those figures I wouldn't see any problem - providing no-one argues about the trailer limits - the axle plates would suggest a max of 500 kgs each so a max trailer weight of 1000 kgs would be ideal ..remember this is a GROSS weight so includes the weight of the trailer itself ...

licence max 3500
car max 2245 car min 1700
trailer max 1000

would IMHO make you totally flameproof, even with the car empty and the trailer full !!

But please remember these are just my views and opinions .. I am NOT an expert .. I've just been towing for more years, and with some "wierd" combinations, than I care to think about !!

:)
« Last Edit: 13 May 2008, 09:48:50 by entwood »
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Lazydocker

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #18 on: 13 May 2008, 09:47:19 »
Quote
I would tend to agree with most of those figures ..

Remember these are all MAXIMUM figures, so there is room for manouvre... if the car is not at max of 2245 -- ie say its 2100 .. then the trailer can go to 3845-2100 = 1745 ..  legal for towing .. but NOT for a B licence !

In your case with a max licence weight (train) of 3500 you have less room to play with but the idea is the same, just ensure that if you are trying to reduce car weight so you can use a larger trailer weight to stay within the 3500 that the trailer is always less than the car - shouldn't be a problem using a Miggy - but I just want to make the point... :)

Quote
So as long as my trailers MAM is under 1255kgs (3500 - 2245) I should be ok?

If you stick to those figures I wouldn't see any problem - providing no-one argues about the trailer limits - the axle plates would suggest a max of 500 kgs each so a max trailer weight of 1000 kgs would be ideal ..remember this is a GROSS weight so includes the weight of the trailer itself ...

licence max 3500
car max 2245 car min 1700
trailer max 1000

would IMHO make you totally flameproof, even with the car empty and the trailer full !!

But please remember these are just my views and opinions .. I am NOT an expert .. I've just been towing for more years, and with some "wierd" combinations, than I care to think about !!

:)

Just to clarify that Entwood... On a Cat B license the only figures that count are Maximum Authorised Mass so he can't play with the values and reduce the weight of the car because the MAM will still be the same.  :-/ :-/
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hotel21

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #19 on: 13 May 2008, 09:47:50 »
Just remember not to confuse unladen weight, actual weight, and MAM.

The MAM of the trailer you can tow if you only have CatB is 750kgs.

2245 is the max gross weight/MAM of the vehicle without trailer attached.  Thats the designers max weight for the car, its fuel, passengers and anything else within it, that the brakes, suspension etc are designed to cope with.

As soon as you attach a trailer, its then the train weight that is used, ie 3845.  The combination then becomes the all up weight of the car and contents plus the trailer and contents.

Easiest way to establish how much you can put into the trailer is to use a public weighbridge.  Take car and empty trailer, complete with passengers and full fuel load and weigh the whole thing.  Subtract the figure from the train weight and thats the max the trailer and car can carry, as far as the train weight goes.

That process is using the Manufacturers restrictions, not DVLA regarding driver licencing....

Weigh the trailer on its own and subtract that weight from 750kgs.  The resultant figure is the max load the trailer can carry and is probably less than the calculated train weight figure......

Remember that the construction of the trailer itself must not be overloaded, nor the applicable load rating for the tyres, nor the manner the load is carried such that it overloads the rear axle weight of the car - 1230 kgs....
« Last Edit: 13 May 2008, 11:50:21 by hotel21 »
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Lazydocker

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #20 on: 13 May 2008, 09:49:17 »
Must confess... I'm still not convinced of the figures... For some reason the MAM of the trailer which can be towed on a Cat B license of 750Kgs sticks in my mind!!  :-/ :-/ :-/ :question :question

EDIT: Must type faster!!  ;D ;D :y
« Last Edit: 13 May 2008, 09:49:56 by Lazydocker »
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Entwood

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #21 on: 13 May 2008, 09:54:22 »
Quote
Just remember not to confuse unladen weight, actual weight, and MAM.

The MAM of the trailer you can tow if you only have CatB is 750kgs.

2245 is the max gross weight/MAM of the vehicle without trailer attached.  Thats the weight of the car, its fuel, passengers and anything else within it.

As soon as you attach a trailer, its then the train weight that is used, ie 3845.  The combination then becomes the all up weight of the car and contents plus the trailer and contents.

Easiest way to establish how much you can put into the trailer is to use a public weighbridge.  Take car and empty trailer, complete with passengers and full fuel load and weigh the whole thing.  Subtract the figure from the train weight and thats the max the trailer can carry, as far as the train weight goes.

Weigh the trailer on its own and subtract that weight from 750kgs. Thats the max load the trailer can carry and is probably less than the calculated train weight figure......

Remember that the construction of the trailer itself must not be overloaded, nor the applicable load rating for the tyres, nor the manner the load is carried such that it overloads the rear axle weight of the car - 1230 kgs....

Sorry .. must disagree totally with that statement .. :(

As previously linked ...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

Quote
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

This is the bit most people don't know about !!!
« Last Edit: 13 May 2008, 09:55:25 by entwood »
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hotel21

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #22 on: 13 May 2008, 09:58:24 »
As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......
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Lazydocker

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #23 on: 13 May 2008, 09:58:52 »
Quote
Quote
Just remember not to confuse unladen weight, actual weight, and MAM.

The MAM of the trailer you can tow if you only have CatB is 750kgs.

2245 is the max gross weight/MAM of the vehicle without trailer attached.  Thats the weight of the car, its fuel, passengers and anything else within it.

As soon as you attach a trailer, its then the train weight that is used, ie 3845.  The combination then becomes the all up weight of the car and contents plus the trailer and contents.

Easiest way to establish how much you can put into the trailer is to use a public weighbridge.  Take car and empty trailer, complete with passengers and full fuel load and weigh the whole thing.  Subtract the figure from the train weight and thats the max the trailer can carry, as far as the train weight goes.

Weigh the trailer on its own and subtract that weight from 750kgs. Thats the max load the trailer can carry and is probably less than the calculated train weight figure......

Remember that the construction of the trailer itself must not be overloaded, nor the applicable load rating for the tyres, nor the manner the load is carried such that it overloads the rear axle weight of the car - 1230 kgs....

Sorry .. must disagree totally with that statement .. :(

As previously linked ...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

Quote
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

This is the bit most people don't know about !!!

Probably including the local plod!!  :o :o

That's where it all gets confusing!!! Just out of interest then... What difference does the B+E entitlement actually make?
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platty

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #24 on: 13 May 2008, 09:59:02 »
Ha ha ha! This has got to be the single most unnecessarily complicated piece of vehicle law ever!  ;D

edit:
Quote
As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......

Surely this seems ridiculous - the trailer weight could vary from 250kgs to 2000kgs??

I agree with Lazydocker - surely the MAM values are fixed and no matter how I load the car or trailer these will remain?

The trailer will not be loaded heavy and I do not see the overall weight of it being more than 1000kgs - this leads me to believe that I should be ok (even if the Omega reaches its MAM of 2245kgs- which is unlikely)

Again, many thanks for everyone's input.  :y
« Last Edit: 13 May 2008, 10:01:15 by platty »
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Lazydocker

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #25 on: 13 May 2008, 10:02:59 »
Quote
As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......

I couldn't quite get there!!! I knew there was a problem with the theory somewhere!!

Incidentally, with that being the case, shouldn't all Miggy's with tow bars be fitted with Tachographs?? The Tacho laws apply to any vehicle combination over 3500Kg  :-/ :-/ :-/

Not that most people would need to use it as they would be on private time, i.e. not for hire/reward!
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Entwood

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #26 on: 13 May 2008, 10:04:59 »
Quote
As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......

Are you saying then that no-one can tow anything with a miggy without a +e licence ??  

I see what you are saying... sort of .. but that point of view has never been put on any of the towing/driver training courses I have done... perhaps because I'll bet we all had "grandad rights" to a B+E licence ... :(

If it is correct .. then a lot of folks could be in trouble without realising it !!

 :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/
« Last Edit: 13 May 2008, 10:06:06 by entwood »
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Lazydocker

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #27 on: 13 May 2008, 10:05:32 »
Platty, I think we're there... H21 has it in a nutshell I believe as he has correctly pointed out that te MAM of your Miggy+trailer (Max train weight) is indeed 3845Kgs!!
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Lazydocker

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #28 on: 13 May 2008, 10:08:12 »
Quote
Quote
As soon as you hook up a trailer to the Omega, from the plate piccy listed, its train weight/MAM is 3845 kgs which is 345 kgs above the cut off weight......

Are you saying then that no-one can tow anything with a miggy without a +e licence ??  

I see what you are saying... sort of .. but that point of view has never been put on any of the towing/driver training courses I have done... perhaps because I'll bet we all had "grandad rights" to a B+E licence ... :(

If it is correct .. then an a lot of folks could be in trouble without realising it !!

 :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

I'll have you know I'm only 30 and have these "Grandad" rights!!!  ;D ;D :y

It only really came into effect in 1997 (I think) when you no longer got an automatic +E on your passing the tow vehicle test!
« Last Edit: 13 May 2008, 10:08:35 by Lazydocker »
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hotel21

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Re: Trailer towing advice
« Reply #29 on: 13 May 2008, 10:09:25 »
What it means is.....


Quote
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

Thats to say the addition of a 750 kg trailer to a vehicle can reach a train MAM of 4250 kgs but that only depends on the weight limits of the towing vehicle, obviously.

Yes, there are quite a few folks trundling their caravans etc out there who passed their tests after 1st January 1997 who are, technically, driving without a licence....

Passing your car test before that date does give grandfather rights....

Platty - 750 ks trailer max.    :y
« Last Edit: 13 May 2008, 10:13:39 by hotel21 »
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