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[cleggy]

Tour of Britian is a tad different 

But we had route signs, road sprayed with arrows at all junctions, St Johns Ambulance, Crew cars, support cars. So decent sized event 

Certain diesel/hybrid cars don't pay any road tax!

Event was fully insured too by British Cycling.

Law works perfectly well in Euroland 

But they are insured as should invalid cars and cycles.

I only wanted to say when starting this thread is that it is bloody stupid to blame the motorist for a collision with a cyclist when it is clearly the cyclists fault. If you run into the back of another car then it is your fault, how the hell if a cyclist runs into the rear of your car can it be your fault.

Cyclists are idiots, car drivers are idiots but each must respect the Highway Code

As for Euroland.... FREAK OUT

You are turning left, you overtake a cycle. The cycle is going faster than you think, you turn left into a side road. Bam!

Guy on the bike runs into the back of you. Seen it before!  - Also happened to me, been overtaken then car almost straight away turns across me. 

Clearly, as said earlier rules for dangerous cyclists need to be improved as well.

But as a car driver, if you are behind a cyclist and know if you hit him its your fault, you would give them a lot more room when passing, be aware of pulling out of junctions ect, as thats most common cause of serious accidents. Car at T junction, pulls out, not seeing the cyclist, happened to friend of mine TWICE in as many months. Second time he ended up going over the roof of the car! 

You are making up scenarios that are clearly biased. I personally do give cyclists room and hopefully have road awareness and anticipation but if one runs into the back of me for any reason why should he as a road users be treated any differently

Let me help you here,  HE SHOULDN'T You can't have one rule for car drivers and another for cyclists

It's called The Highway Code

[tunnie]

I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion 

You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers 

[paul.lovejoy]

i ve cycled to the car the morning after a good night out and its bloody scary, the sight and the experience, was so glad to reach the car and put away the bike in fact gave the bike away a short time later

[paul.lovejoy]

the best type of drivers and riders must be those that use both a car and a bike

the worst type or should i say the people more likley to have any form of incident is people who just drive a car and people who just ride a bike and have no appreciation of the other probably

[tunnie]

I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion 

You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers 

I'll also add your scenarios scenario are clearly biased Cleggy, as you only appear to be concerned with someone running into the back of you when there are many other types of collisions, such as T bone 

[paul.lovejoy]

maybe hes been ramed from behind before by a bike

[cleggy]

I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion 

You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers 

Before I retired I used to 10 miles a day.

Now all the scenarios you give could apply to car v car as well as car v cycle and yes some car drivers are arsewipes and so are  some cyclists.
Each equally to blame so in any given situation someone is at fault, if a car runs into a cyclist it is his fault, if a cyclist runs into a car it is his fault not the car driver.

I gave an example of a clear cut incident, if I was driving down a major road and a cyclist came out of a side road into the side of me whose fault is it? There are all types of collision.

No Paul I haven't, nor have I rammed a bike up the arse, it is an example of clear cut blame according to the insurance companies, even when some prat in a car pulls from a side road into a major road in front of you and immediately brakes. When you ram him it is your fault

Why should a cyclist damage my car and not be insured

The reason I started this thread were news reports proposing that in all cases of an RTC involving a cyclist the motorist was to blame, which I find bloody ridiculous. I did not intend this to turn into the usual cyclist versus motorist thread  

[Entwood]

my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice.

[paul.lovejoy]

As i get older i think for what it would cost all vehicle should be fitted with cameras.

watched an interesting one well not interesting this guy apparently on a bike videos himself to and from work and without being anti bike he must go out of his way to have a go at motorist to catch it on his camera only he did to mr van man who chased him up the road, accused the guy of cutting him up when overtaking and he was not even close to him, which a lot of it could be down to adrenalin maybe or too much energy drink

i do think though as the post if it is going to be automatically the cars fault it will open up a whole tin of worms and camecarsy bikers

[tunnie]

I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion 

You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers 

I gave an example of a clear cut incident, if I was driving down a major road and a cyclist came out of a side road into the side of me whose fault is it? There are all types of collision.

I did not intend this to turn into the usual cyclist versus motorist thread

Exactly all kinds of incidents, I can't help but feel that if unless proved otherwise this rule would make car drivers give cyclists more room. Likewise cyclists need to give cars more room and read the road head, many times I've eased up or stopped on a hunch that a car did not see me. Often get it right.

my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice.

Wonder how Eurolands law works?

Something like this is clearly the guy on the bike not slowing quick enough....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpEovP1naoE

Surely same would happen in countries where this rule exists? 

[sassanach]

assh+les come in all shapes and sizes,some walk,some drive and some ride bikes,how can you blame one group against another?

[Kevin Wood]

Sounds like it'll play into the hands of insurance scammers, to me. Just wobble along on a bike, stage an incident where you wobble into the side of a car and claim they didn't give you any room, etc. Fabricate some witness statements. Driver automatically at fault. £2k compensation for a couple of bruises and a scratch on your bike. It will never work here.

. and forget cyclists ever paying road tax or insurance. The last thing that will ever happen in this age of CO2 targets, etc. is any additional barriers against green forms of transport.

[Gaffers]

I hear a lot of complaints about cyclists riding on pavements.  I also hear complaints about cyclists not using lanes despite the reasons given above.  I also hear that I should not be on the road on my bike because I dont have insurance or don't pay RFl.

The facts are:

at least 75% of all cycle lanes are useless and I would say about 50% are downright dangerous,
the highway code and the law says I can choose whether to use the cycle path or the road,
I have CYCLE insurance with up to £2m 3rd party liability,
car insurance companies will always fight harder against a claim from a cyclist in an accident as opposed to a motorist*,
in an accident with a car a cyclist will ALWAYS come off worse,
I pay RFL on 2 cars,
a pothole can cause light damage on a car,
a pothole can seriously hurt or even kill cyclists,
the police don't care about cyclists until they get hurt or hurt somebody (which is wrong)
I have lost too many friends and family who were hit by cars while they were cycling, NOTE: I did not say who were hit by cyclists while driving cars.

* unless there is video evidence in which case they pay out pretty quick

Personally I don't care if anyone thinks I shouldn't be cycling on the road I have as much right to be there as anyone else, both legally and morally.  I share the road, follow the rules and most motorists are pretty well behaved, but it only takes one idiot to f%$k around with my life expectancy.  I dont paint all motorists with the same brush as those few idiot ones so why tar all cyclists with the same brush as those cyclists who ride like idiots?


Oh F£$k it, carry on being bigoted.  I dont care about this argument anymore, I have better things to do with my time.

[albitz]

my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice.

Nail on head.Renders previous three pages meaningless.No intelligent being could argue otherwise imo.

[symes]

my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice.

Exactly right mare=Innocent until proven guilty