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[JamesV6CDX]

Hi All,

I've got my eye on an Omega to purchase. It's a prefacelift and is absolutely immaculate, apart from the fact the rear arches are really quite rusty.

I can do most things mechanical but I don't know a huge amount about bodywork. Is it a feasible repair, and does anyone know what it's likely to cost?

I know that all the rotton metal will need to be taken out to stop it coming back, but that's about it....

Any recommended repairers for this kind of work?

Cheers
James

[cem_devecioglu]

it depends how deep they are ..  and how much importance you give to paint ..

if it requires cut and weld job and painting of metallic colors and a perfect finish, it will cost more than omega probably

good quality metallic paints, sealants are not cheap..

[dbdb]

I'm just doing mine now.  Open all doors and check the sill tops and especially between the sill and rear wing panel arch.

With a small chisel I chipped off the surface rust and a very small area beyond (rust hasn't spread to the visible vertical wing panel yet), then use a wire brush or flap sanding disk and Dremel to remove as much as you can of the remaining rust, degrease with meths, remove any salt with sugar soap solution, dry thoroughly then treat with a water based penetrating rust converter like Vactan, then a few thick coats of anti rust primer like International do.  Car paint on top.

If you can get the converter to penetrate all the rust, i.e. if you remove all but the very thin surface and solid rust, and if you put anti rust primer over the set converter (despite the converter claims of self priming) then it should outlast the car.  That's what I've found anyway.

If you fail to convert any of the rust eg if it is in a deep layer, or is greasy and repels the water based converter, or any salt is left in the rust, or you fail to prime the converted rust, then it will come back.  This gives the converters a bad name which I don't think they deserve. 

[dbug]

Best way is to cut out and replace all rusty metal - any good bodyshop should be able to quote for this James.

For a diy approach one of the best rust removers is Bilt Hamber Deox http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bilt-Hamber-Deox-Gel-Rust-Remover-Gelled-Corrosion-Remover-1000ml-bottle-/181161233568?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item2a2e0d0ca0 - I've always had good results with this product, as have others including MarkDTM.

HTH

[Shackeng]

Hi All,

I've got my eye on an Omega to purchase. It's a prefacelift and is absolutely immaculate, apart from the fact the rear arches are really quite rusty.

I can do most things mechanical but I don't know a huge amount about bodywork. Is it a feasible repair, and does anyone know what it's likely to cost?

I know that all the rotton metal will need to be taken out to stop it coming back, but that's about it....

Any recommended repairers for this kind of work?

Cheers
James

I have the same problem with my TD Estate which you recently tinkered with. However, as I intend to keep it, I am taking it to my excellent local body shop who always does a top job. Not cheap, but quality.

[Nick W]

At least the shape of the Omega rear arches makes for an easy repair. It would have to be really bad to extend beyond the flat area around the arch itself. That's an easy panel to make, fit and finish. Paint rectification will be the same in all cases; at least a quarterpanel repaint. I'll be doing the driver's side on mine next year.

[johnnydog]

Going off at a slight tangent, but to do with rusty wheelarches.....for those cars with already rusty wheelarches, then this is probably of no use unless you have them repaired with new metal, but for what it's worth, to prevent the common corrosion problem occurring, as long as your arches are predominantly rust free, then I recommend the following.... On a warm day ( warmer the better) remove all the side trim from the boot / tailgate areas, including all electrical parts such as Bose sound equipment, fuel flap solenoid etc. This will give good (reasonable would be a better description!) access to the inner wheelarches /bowl. If there is evidence of surface rust, treat it with a rust converter such as Dinitrol, which is available in aerosol form and has a long shallow angle spray patten which can be directed into the arches and as far as the front edges of the wings by the back doors. You will have to contort yourself at some unusual angles and place your arm into the inner rear wing areas and aim pretty accurately to perform this satisfactorily. Leave this for 16  / 24 hours before doing the same process, but with a good quality wax rust proofing compound such as Bilt Hamber or Dinitrol, which can come with special lances to help access the difficult to reach areas. If your arches are very good with no sign of corrosion, then just apply the wax rustproofing compound. The warm temperature helps the stuff to penetrate / creep into welded seems. I have also used Supertrol which isn't found regularly, and it is quite thin, but is excellent for this task, as it penetrates any seems where rust can take a hold. Normal wax oil just covers seems, and is too thick to penetrate them, but obviously the hotter the day, the better the substance flows.
It's a messy job, and the car smells of it for a week or so, but its well worth while. I started doing it on Cavaliers I owned in the 90's which used to suffer with the same problem of rusty arches, and rust in the arches on cars I treated was never a problem, and my three Omega Elites have since had this treatment. They all live outside, and the wheelarches are all totally rust free.
Of course, the application can be applied to any crevice where rust is normally a problem, but avoid spraying it on any rubber items as it can make them deteriorate prematurely.
This treatment will also help to hold off any corrosion from repaired arches.
This subject may have been covered before, but seeing this topic made me think about sharing this for the benefit  of others. After all, Omegas will never be made again, so look after your prized possession!

[dbdb]

TYhis got me thinking about all the different ways of dealing with rust.  I think there are 6 basic types but do add any:

1) remove all rusted metal and replace.  Not stricly speaking a treatment, just plain removal.
2) apply a rust converter - this chemically converts the rust to black haematite or similar which is inert and can be painted. Some suppliers are Vactan, Hammerite and Fertan. Jenolite also do one not to be confused with their rust remover.
3) apply a rust remover this chemically removes the rust (actually converts but makes it drop off).  There seem to be two basic types, old navy jelly like jenolite which is toxic (phosphoric acid based?) and the newer slower safe types like Hammerite do and I think Deox is. I've found the old ones better but both work well if you can degrease and dip the rusty item.
4) apply a rust primer suitable for application directly to rust. Generally these are zinc based paints, International do a good one.
5) apply a wax or oil treatment to the rust, eg Waxoyl or Dinitrol. I don't think this chemically treats the rust, I think it works just by denying water and oxygen to the rust but I could be wrong.
6) sell for scrap (rust weighs in at more than steel ).

All apart from 6 have their advantages and disadvantages. I would use 2 where I cannot guarantee removing all the rust followed up by 4.  I might use 3 where I can remove the item and dip it, followed by 4. 5 is ideal for spraying into inaccessible places as mentioned. 1 may often cost more than the value of the car as mentioned. 

[dbdb]

Completely forgot to mention another option, probably the best one actually, so

7) Epoxy.  Remove as much rust as possible and apply 2 part epoxy primer directly to the steel.  The only drawbacks are that using two part paint is a bit of a pain and it is expensive. I think there's no need to treat any minor rust that you can't remove as long as its thin, dry and not covered under paint. The epoxy will soak in and seal it.

[ajsphead]

Even after it's all been treated you'll still need to keep an eye on them - it's a bit like the Forth bridge. Getting good protection on the thin edge of the metal inside the arch is tricky. I've tried different paints, sealants etc. The best, although still not perfect is still a good gob of old engine oil taken from somewhere where it's got thick and tacky over the years. Don't forget to also check the trailing edges of the rear doors.

[omega3000]

Completely forgot to mention another option, probably the best one actually, so

7) Epoxy.  Remove as much rust as possible and apply 2 part epoxy primer directly to the steel.  The only drawbacks are that using two part paint is a bit of a pain and it is expensive. I think there's no need to treat any minor rust that you can't remove as long as its thin, dry and not covered under paint. The epoxy will soak in and seal it.

Me and cem would agree  Although i like using the angle grinder , so rust from now on will get cut out 

[cem_devecioglu]

Completely forgot to mention another option, probably the best one actually, so

7) Epoxy.  Remove as much rust as possible and apply 2 part epoxy primer directly to the steel.  The only drawbacks are that using two part paint is a bit of a pain and it is expensive. I think there's no need to treat any minor rust that you can't remove as long as its thin, dry and not covered under paint. The epoxy will soak in and seal it.

Me and cem would agree  Although i like using the angle grinder , so rust from now on will get cut out 

epoxy is the #1 solution for preventing rust and used for ships  but deffo expensive.. 

[dbdb]

Even after it's all been treated you'll still need to keep an eye on them - it's a bit like the Forth bridge. Getting good protection on the thin edge of the metal inside the arch is tricky. I've tried different paints, sealants etc. The best, although still not perfect is still a good gob of old engine oil taken from somewhere where it's got thick and tacky over the years. Don't forget to also check the trailing edges of the rear doors.

I'm assuming the rust all began on the outside (bottom) of the arch inner (horizontal) edge.  That's where the stones would hit I guess.  Had it begun on the top and eaten through to the bottom I wouldn't have much edge left.  So I've been a bit remiss treating the top edge.  I need to clean it out now and slap some Vactan and underseal on it.

Couldn't find any rust on the doors, only the rear arch (wing and door frame) and 3 small patches on the sill tops normally covered by the doors.

[ajsphead]

Looks like the paint was applied a bit thicker at the factory on yours. Mine rusted from the edge of the arch lip outwards, likewise the edge of the lip on the rear doors outwards. Mind you, it had completely rusty rain gutters on both sides of the roof where the paint was so thin. I've always used Bilt Hamber deox gel which was particularly good for the gutters so long as you ignore the instructions, slap it on nice and thick, cover with cling film and leave for 12 hours.