Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nick W]

I hate timing chains, the fact they do fail, they do get noisy, the guides and adjusters do wear......yet they have no service intervals.

Now go and listen to the noisy timing chain on a XK engine, any Merc 6, or even a high mileage Rootes 4. They don't have service intervals, because being properly designed and specified, you'll have the engine apart for other reasons well before the timing chain fails.

The reason modern ones fail is because they are longer, tend to be under more strain(higher lift cams, high compression ratios and faster engine speeds), and most importantly look like they were stolen off a 3 year old child's wrist. And that's before you find that some oppswit decided to put the damn thing at the back of the engine, making replacing it when it fails an engine out job. I wouldn't be surprised to find some engineer at BMW has a folder full of reasons why it would be 'better' there than at the front, even though his colleagues should have battered him with it when he suggested the idea.

Older cambelts are similar; Ford's Pinto doesn't suffer much from belt failures as it only drives the cam and oil-pump. Plus changing one takes about 30 mins with no special tools. If only moderns one were as straightforward!

[05omegav6]

VW have taken to chains on their bigger diesels all buried at the back of the block...

Any one who buys a boat fitted with a VW vee diesel will be pretty miffed when the superstructure has to be removed to change the chain engine after the chain snaps...

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f73/timing-belt-faq-65076.html

Duck fat

As tempting a package as a lwb Phaeton/A8 is, there has to be a catch, and when that catch reveals itself I would rather be footing the bill

[Kevin Wood]

Older cambelts are similar; Ford's Pinto doesn't suffer much from belt failures as it only drives the cam and oil-pump. Plus changing one takes about 30 mins with no special tools. If only moderns one were as straightforward!

I'm not sure many cars, old or new, suffer from cam belt failures if they are replaced on schedule and competently. I would take a belt over a chain any day of the week.

The problem with modern cars, especially fleet material like BMW and VAG junk is that their prime concern is TCO for the first 3 or 4 years and 100k miles. That's what the fleet buyers are interested in, and if they can make a chain that'll limp on to 100-120k where a belt would have required a change by then, that's what they'll do. They couldn't give a monkeys if the cost of replacement then writes the car off because selling it new is all they care about.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I hate timing chains, the fact they do fail, they do get noisy, the guides and adjusters do wear......yet they have no service intervals.

Now go and listen to the noisy timing chain on a XK engine, any Merc 6, or even a high mileage Rootes 4. They don't have service intervals, because being properly designed and specified, you'll have the engine apart for other reasons well before the timing chain fails.

That Nick, is utter rubbish.

They dont have service intervals becuase they are deemed to be able to last 100K miles, well before anything else on an engine is due to break but outside of what is considered design life.

Issues have occured on timing chains since the day dot on all manufacturers, yes modern chains have more to do and are often simplex due to space constraints but check an old chain setup, see how mcuh stretch there is and how far the cam timing is out (Rover V8 is a classic example, shortest chain setup you will ever see and yet stretch by 60k miles).

Noise is not the be all and end all, the key thing they should be doing is controlling the cam timing, and this is not possible on a multilink steel chain running on gears over the life of an engine no matter who designed it.

[chrisgixer]

[Crazycarzowner]

Just found out today that the BM won't be back till beginning of December  What the hell are they doing with it to take so long???

 

[aaronjb]

Just found out today that the BM won't be back till beginning of December  What the hell are they doing with it to take so long???

 

The YTS lad is doing it..

[Crazycarzowner]

The YTS lad is doing it..

Could understand that if it was being done at HQ, but its gone back to BMW! 

[05omegav6]

Probably repairing the head, and waiting for parts from Germany

Sooo much quicker just to drop a new engine in

[I_want_an_Omega]

Probably repairing the head, and waiting for parts from Germany

Sooo much quicker just to drop a new engine in

Soooo much cheaper to repair it - depends on which dept is paying for it. The reason I say that is that back in 1997 a pal on mine in BT had a (then new) Omega and it needed a new engine due to the cambelt breaking. The dealer invoice for the new engine was over £8k. So, wind that forwards a few years and you would be looking at well over ten I would think.

[MR MISTER]

Probably repairing the head, and waiting for parts from Germany

Sooo much quicker just to drop a new engine in

Soooo much cheaper to repair it - depends on which dept is paying for it. The reason I say that is that back in 1997 a pal on mine in BT had a (then new) Omega and it needed a new engine due to the cambelt breaking. The dealer invoice for the new engine was over £8k. So, wind that forwards a few years and you would be looking at well over ten I would think.

1997, 8K for an engine. 2013, 8K for 8 omegas.

[I_want_an_Omega]

Probably repairing the head, and waiting for parts from Germany

Sooo much quicker just to drop a new engine in

Soooo much cheaper to repair it - depends on which dept is paying for it. The reason I say that is that back in 1997 a pal on mine in BT had a (then new) Omega and it needed a new engine due to the cambelt breaking. The dealer invoice for the new engine was over £8k. So, wind that forwards a few years and you would be looking at well over ten I would think.

1997, 8K for an engine. 2013, 8K for 8 omegas.

8, more than that surely!

[albitz]

Probably repairing the head, and waiting for parts from Germany

Sooo much quicker just to drop a new engine in

Soooo much cheaper to repair it - depends on which dept is paying for it. The reason I say that is that back in 1997 a pal on mine in BT had a (then new) Omega and it needed a new engine due to the cambelt breaking. The dealer invoice for the new engine was over £8k. So, wind that forwards a few years and you would be looking at well over ten I would think.

1997, 8K for an engine. 2013, 8K for 18 omegas.

Sounds about right.

[cem_devecioglu]

Probably repairing the head, and waiting for parts from Germany

Sooo much quicker just to drop a new engine in

Soooo much cheaper to repair it - depends on which dept is paying for it. The reason I say that is that back in 1997 a pal on mine in BT had a (then new) Omega and it needed a new engine due to the cambelt breaking. The dealer invoice for the new engine was over £8k. So, wind that forwards a few years and you would be looking at well over ten I would think.

1997, 8K for an engine. 2013, 8K for 18 omegas.

Sounds about right.

except maintenance

[MR MISTER]

Probably repairing the head, and waiting for parts from Germany

Sooo much quicker just to drop a new engine in

Soooo much cheaper to repair it - depends on which dept is paying for it. The reason I say that is that back in 1997 a pal on mine in BT had a (then new) Omega and it needed a new engine due to the cambelt breaking. The dealer invoice for the new engine was over £8k. So, wind that forwards a few years and you would be looking at well over ten I would think.

1997, 8K for an engine. 2013, 8K for 18 omegas.

Sounds about right.

except maintenance

Yep. We're back to 8K a year now.