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[MR MISTER]

Has anyone been watching this? Amazing bravery by our submariners.

[Varche]

Amazing bravery by submariners on both sides.

I never realised the Russians had so many nuclear missile equipped subs.

Weren't aren't we all lucky that not one of them went rogue on either side............

[PhilRich]

Amazing bravery by submariners on both sides.

I never realised the Russians had so many nuclear missile equipped subs.

Weren't aren't we all lucky that not one of them went rogue on either side............

[/highlight]






Especially so since anyone willing to be sealed in a steel coffin & allowing themselves to be carried below the surface of the sea repeatedly must be a raving lunatic!

[Shackeng]

A very interesting programme, unfortunately marred by both glaring omissions and chronological inaccuracies. It is always disappointing when something of which you have some knowledge is presented inaccurately as fact.

[MR MISTER]

A very interesting programme, unfortunately marred by both glaring omissions and chronological inaccuracies. It is always disappointing when something of which you have some knowledge is presented inaccurately as fact.

That's the cold war for you 

[Entwood]

A very interesting programme, unfortunately marred by both glaring omissions and chronological inaccuracies. It is always disappointing when something of which you have some knowledge is presented inaccurately as fact.

As an ex-MPA operator you have far to much "inside knowledge" ...    

(I'll make no comment on either your or your aircraft age .. but did you take part in that ?? )   

[Shackeng]

A very interesting programme, unfortunately marred by both glaring omissions and chronological inaccuracies. It is always disappointing when something of which you have some knowledge is presented inaccurately as fact.

As an ex-MPA operator you have far to much "inside knowledge" ...    

(I'll make no comment on either your or your aircraft age .. but did you take part in that ?? )   

My whole service flying career!!!

[omegod]

A very interesting programme, unfortunately marred by both glaring omissions and chronological inaccuracies. It is always disappointing when something of which you have some knowledge is presented inaccurately as fact.

As an ex-MPA operator you have far to much "inside knowledge" ...    

(I'll make no comment on either your or your aircraft age .. but did you take part in that ?? )   

My whole service flying career!!!

Must have been an interesting time! any stories you could share??

[chrisgixer]

Yes come on, share with the group.


But seriously, genuine interest here.

[Shackeng]

Wow, first off, my memory is not that great, but for example, in the Shackleton era, there was invariably at least one, and possibly several, airborne in the sensitive areas around our coasts, checking for the presence of Russian submarines or surface vessels spying on any of our naval facilities. The Russians then, and possibly still, also had spy ships in the shape of fishing vessels permanently stationed around our coasts, two types I recall, were the Lentra and Okean.

I certainly consider myself very fortunate to have survived Shackletons, we lost something like 12, and many good friends, in the years that I operated them.

In the TV programme, they talked of the SOSUS underwater listening cable, (laid in the '60s as I recall, and not shortly after the war as implied) which worked well as far as I know, but as it was in a fixed position, it could only report boats (subs) as they approached, its range is still secret, and in the late Shackleton and then Nimrod era, we continually monitored the Iceland - Faroes gap with our underwater buoys, as this was the only realistic route for them through to the Atlantic. Our submarines were very good at what they did, but I can assure you that surveillance against Russian subs in the broader sense, could not have been carried out by subs alone as implied by the programme.

Unfortunately, your Government does not now see it as essential to maintain maritime security for us, an Island nation.

[Shackeng]

Horror stories, one or two. Preparing for a 12 hour sortie in a Mk3 phase 3 (with Vipers) out to 20° West one winter day at RAF Kinloss,  OAT was -12°C. After de-icing and much effort we got the Griffons started. As we got airborne the pilot flying reported that he had felt a slight restriction in rudder pedal movement when he kicked off the wind induced yaw. After carrying out further rudder pedal movement both pilots decided it was a negligible restriction, and that we should continue to 20° West to complete our task. It was possible in a Shack to examine large sections of the rudder and elevator control runs which I then did, but could find no sign of anything amiss. The Captain was a Navigator, who sat next to me, and he had then to make a decision. We had a discussion as to whether the restriction may be related to ice accretion possibly not cleared on the ground, but we both felt this was unlikely. I took the safe option of advising a return, as in my view, any unknown issue relating to flight controls, may (or may not) be serious. Fortunately, I did not have to make the decision to lose what may have been a very important sortie. The Captain, who I am delighted to say is still a dear friend, made the brave decision to jettison fuel and return. After landing, met by the CO red in face demanding to know why, the aircraft was towed into the warmth of a hangar for inspection. The two tail fins were mounted on something similar to gate hinges, top and bottom. The right hand fin upper hinge was corroded away to almost nothing.

[Shackeng]

This resulted in the grounding of the fleet for them all to be checked.
I learnt about flying from that!!!

[Webby the Bear]

Wow some really interesting details there mate.

ps tried to pm you back but your inbox is/was full 

[Shackeng]

Thanks Webby, just noticed that today.!

Further to my last, as most of you will have realised, had we continued we would almost certainly have lost the right fin, and probably the A/C, bearing in mind that we operated the Shackleton on task at about 1000' .

apologies for the 'war' stories but you did ask.

[Shackeng]

Converting to the Nimrod was like moving to a different planet. When we first got them in '69, we just could not believe the power we had. To give you an idea, we operated to and from our 'on task' areas at flight levels just like any other jet airliner, but then descended to our operational height, which would depend on our task. If we were monitoring a field of sonobuoys we could be anywhere between about 12 and 22 thousand feet. At these levels, and for fuel economy, we would shut down one engine as soon as we were on task, and at a certain point in the sortie, when we reached 'critical weight', or 'crit weight' as we termed it, we would shut down a second engine. This weight was determined as the weight at which, should you then suffer an engine failure, the a/c could maintain height on the remaining engine while the other engines were restarted. I suffered a catastrophic engine failure just below crit weight while on two at 1000', and the a/c climbed away on the remaining engine, with the bomb doors open, initially at 6000' per minute up to 5000' without any great loss in airspeed. What a fabulous aircraft.