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Author Topic: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)  (Read 1438 times)

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Webby the Bear

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Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« on: 20 January 2014, 12:31:49 »

Hi ya,

Really can't find much on t'internet surprisingly; well, nothing really explanatory anyway  ::)

What's the difference between a short and a long wishbone system and the pros and cons for each? I'm presuming it's the length measured from ball joint to where it attaches to the subframe? And I presume it's better to go long to give more vertical motion? But really just guessing.

Cheers girls. :)
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Entwood

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #1 on: 20 January 2014, 12:44:12 »

Hi ya,

Really can't find much on t'internet surprisingly; well, nothing really explanatory anyway  ::)

What's the difference between a short and a long wishbone system and the pros and cons for each? I'm presuming it's the length measured from ball joint to where it attaches to the subframe? And I presume it's better to go long to give more vertical motion? But really just guessing.

Cheers girls. :)

Don't know if this is any use ..

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html
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Nick W

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #2 on: 20 January 2014, 13:01:42 »

There is no short answer to that!

You need to read some books to have a worthwhile understanding. 'Competition car suspension' by Allan Staniforth is a good place to start.
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #3 on: 20 January 2014, 13:05:19 »

Thanks boys.

I read the car bible and could only find an explanation of double wishbone.

Forget pros and cons then.... is my guess at what it is correct? :)
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Entwood

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #4 on: 20 January 2014, 13:19:00 »

You could always have a play with this and see what you get !!!

http://www.suspensioncalculator.com/
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05omegav6

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #5 on: 20 January 2014, 13:35:15 »

You could always have a play with this and see what you get !!!

http://www.suspensioncalculator.com/
Or invest in some technic lego :y
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Nick W

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #6 on: 20 January 2014, 14:09:40 »

Or pins, string and some thick card.
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chrisgixer

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #7 on: 20 January 2014, 14:15:35 »

Why do you ask Webby? :)
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #8 on: 20 January 2014, 14:21:23 »

Why do you ask Webby? :)

I have a chassis exam coming up. And i'm looking at some preperation questions and this was one of them. strange i thought bearing in mind i've actually never heard of short/long WBs. i've heard of double wb though.

i'm actually pretty nervous about it. it's one area that i am struggling to get to grips with..... especially the active suspension. theres like 1 billion sensors  :'(
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chrisgixer

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #9 on: 20 January 2014, 14:32:48 »

Hmmm, need a bit more info really. Could guess but that might lead us off in the wrong direction.

Can you add any more to the question?
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #10 on: 20 January 2014, 14:34:44 »

Hmmm, need a bit more info really. Could guess but that might lead us off in the wrong direction.

Can you add any more to the question?

Sadly mate i cant...its a sheet of 45 prep questions.

i'm in school wednesday... ill ask wtf theyre on about  ;D
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chrisgixer

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #11 on: 20 January 2014, 14:42:54 »

;D ok. ;D

Thoughts are, could be the difference between top and bottom wishbone on double wishbone set ups. As the top one is often shorter to increase camber on compression.

On McPherson strut design I would think the travel would set the length.

Or are we talking about the off road designs that use connecting rods that traverse the full width of the car?
A shorter wishbone will offset the camber more than a long wishbone.

More questions than answers there.

So yes, wtf are they on about ? ;D
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #12 on: 20 January 2014, 14:50:27 »

;D ok. ;D

Thoughts are, could be the difference between top and bottom wishbone on double wishbone set ups. As the top one is often shorter to increase camber on compression.

On McPherson strut design I would think the travel would set the length.

Or are we talking about the off road designs that use connecting rods that traverse the full width of the car?
A shorter wishbone will offset the camber more than a long wishbone.

More questions than answers there.

So yes, wtf are they on about ? ;D

Thanks Chris....I'll torture him on Wednesday for info  ;D

They're not used to keen people up there. They usually deal with spotty, incoherent teenagers who struggle to function.

In my class they're all elder statesmen inc. me who need answers. Immediately  ;D
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2woody

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Re: Can you help with my research (Wishbone theory)
« Reply #13 on: 21 January 2014, 10:54:21 »

In short.....

The wishbone length and inclination defines virtually everything about how a car handles. According to the geometry chosen, the wheels angle to the road can be controlled ( or not ) so that its at 90 degrees to give the best grip. Or indeed to give diminishing grip at certain points.

The concept is the Roll Centre. The geometry of the wishbone leads to an imaginary point called the roll centre, which is the point about which that end of the car rolls around in cornering. The roll centre is the "god" principle of suspensions.

The designer really needs to contrive the roll centre so that it remains in the same place through the whole suspension travel and usually that the front one is lower than the rear one, leading to controllable understeer. the handling is then adjusted through the anti-roll bar strength.

getting technical, on a macpherson strut car the roll centre is found by extrapolating inboard the plane through the outer wishbone ball joint and the wishbone fulcrum until it meets the plane perpendicular to the strut. But to simplify, you can imagine a long broom handle attached to the wheel, pointing inboard. The length of the broom handle is the wishbone effective length and the roll centre is the height at which the end is being held. As an exampkle, if your roll centre is eight feet above ground, then the tyre will fall out onto its outer shoulder very quickly.

hope this helps
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