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[cd 2.2]

I would think that it's a safe bet to say that the plane is lost ... possibly with all people on board dead 

They are pretty much certain of this but I hope for all the families, they are proved wrong!

 Malaysian Remote Sensing Agency (M.R.S.A), Bet they didn't think that one through 

[05omegav6]

so the australians along are flying around over the sea along with other countries  looking for this plane..

was just wondering. Do they do it for free 

Ordinarily all Search & Rescue operations are done from the countries own budget .. ie .. not charged for ...  often put down under "operational training" ... main reason being .. everyone wants to be sure that in the event of one of their own aircraft going missing then everyone else will help... the minute someone "charged" for S&R then that system would disintegrate and a "poor" country" would get no help if something happened ... 

That said, when Abby Sunderland found herself dismasted and (well out of her depth) in that area (about 2000 miles wsw of Perth), she sent out to epirb signals... one automatic, and one manual, so they knew she was alive. The family had to charter a Qantas A330 as it was the only aircraft that had a meaningful range to go looking... at a cost to the Australian government of $10,000 per hour.

They found her and were able to give a definite location, which enabled a French trawler, the nearest vessel at the time, to go and fetch her. Subsequently the French tried to change international law to enable charging for the rescue of anyone knowingly and recklessly endangering themselves

Does rather beg the question of why send out much smaller/slower aircraft with a much lower range to go looking for less time on each sortie... makes them look like their trying really hard, without actually achieving anything

Might only have taken a day or two rather than ten, still counting, to find MH370. Apparent window dressing doesn't help to silence the conspiracy theorists

[05omegav6]

Which reminds me... Where's the US carrier group that is/was based in the Indian Ocean

A single carrier group would have the search and rescue capacity equal to that of a modest country...

[biggriffin]

Which reminds me... Where's the US carrier group that is/was based in the Indian Ocean

A single carrier group would have the search and rescue capacity equal to that of a modest country...

that group is somewhere near a country called Russia at the moment, don't why they heading that way?
there's gonaa be a fight/war? 

[Entwood]

Sorry .. but the last 3 posts show very little understanding of S&R procedures/requirements ..

A US carrier has lots of fast jets(fighters) and a few helicopters. fast jets are useless at S&R as they have limited lookout and travel far too fast. Helicopters take way too long to get to any search area to SEARCH, and carry too few crew to do the lookout thing properly ..but are excellent when told exactly where to go for a pickup. An airliner cannot get low enough/slow enough to do lookout either.

The aircraft used ARE capable of doing the job... to do S&R you need to be between 300 & 500 ft above the water .. anything higher and you have 3 problems ... the eye tends to look out too far and try and cover too big an area in the time given, wave motion can easily hide" an object on its lee side, and finally any objects get smaller as height increases, so the chance of missing increases rapidly. It is only possible to concentrate for around 30 minutes, after this time the eyes tend to focus on infinity and you simply won'r "see" an object even if it is there... makes the lookout a tad pointless.... to get round this an S&R aircraft will carry at least twice as many lookouts as needed so that they can be rotated at heir stations and rest their eyes.

Lastly, and probably the most misunderstood aspect of all ... a slow manouverable aircraft is a MUST ... the faster the aircraft goes the WORSE it is .. (ok you all say.. it covers a larger area in the time ... but the above shows it is more likely to miss an object.. but that is not this point) ... lets say that the fast aircraft is lucky and does spot an object .... it has to mark it and then keep sight of it .. no point in using GPS etc as the object is actually moving in the water.. the fast aircraft simply CANNOT turn and keep eyeball contact with the object .. a slow aircraft can.. and does... it is imperative when investigating an object that visual contact is not lost, and the observer "talks" the pilot, crew, cameraman etc etc on to what has been seen.

The C130 Hercules that I flew for 38 years was a good S&R aircraft as it did 90% of the above well, but it took a while to reach the search area due to its, relatively, low cruising speed. The Nimrod (in its day), was even better as it did all the above but got there faster.

[05omegav6]

I was actually thinking of the Northrop Grumman E2... rather than F18s etc

The thinking being that whilst the carrier steams towards the search area, the aircraft could be up and looking rather than flying eight hour sorties for only two hours searching

The Americans are being very quite on the whole thing, which strikes me as suspicious.

At the rate the search is going, the debris will be washing up on Australia before the aircraft find anything that the satellites picked up...

[biggriffin]

I was actually thinking of the Northrop Grumman E2... rather than F18s etc

The thinking being that whilst the carrier steams towards the search area, the aircraft could be up and looking rather than flying eight hour sorties for only two hours searching

The Americans are being very quite on the whole thing, which strikes me as suspicious.

At the rate the search is going, the debris will be washing up on Australia before the aircraft find anything that the satellites picked up...

urm Americans being quite after a plane goes missing,,,,
did they shoot it down to get rid of an individual, cia,involvement,
quick where's our resident conspiracy consultant (calling cem)

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I was actually thinking of the Northrop Grumman E2... rather than F18s etc

The thinking being that whilst the carrier steams towards the search area, the aircraft could be up and looking rather than flying eight hour sorties for only two hours searching

The Americans are being very quite on the whole thing, which strikes me as suspicious.

At the rate the search is going, the debris will be washing up on Australia before the aircraft find anything that the satellites picked up...

urm Americans being quite after a plane goes missing,,,,
did they shoot it down to get rid of an individual, cia,involvement,
quick where's our resident conspiracy consultant (calling cem)

I have not said anything on this thread yet as I am too cynical at times..........

but, do the Americans, British, Russians, Chine, etc, all have satellites that see everything, including right up to individuals walking around?.......the operators of these satellites do not want everyone else to know how good their systems are, and where they are currently looking..............so they see an airliner turn around and eventually fly into the sea...........do you tell everyone that and so disclose the secrets of your system?.............the 239 people on board are dead............so you risk your national security by publishing quickly what you know to take some of the uncertainty away from the relatives, or you think of the millions within your nation and the potential security advantage you have for the future and say nothing, but chuck out a few statements that you have gleaned from your poor satellite images that four days ago there may have been certain pieces of debris in a certain area........by implication you are only admitting officially, although most other nations know otherwise, that your satellite surveillance systems are only able to see limited amounts and detail on the Earth's surface.......?

That is how I see it.

[Entwood]

I was actually thinking of the Northrop Grumman E2... rather than F18s etc

The thinking being that whilst the carrier steams towards the search area, the aircraft could be up and looking rather than flying eight hour sorties for only two hours searching

The Americans are being very quite on the whole thing, which strikes me as suspicious.

At the rate the search is going, the debris will be washing up on Australia before the aircraft find anything that the satellites picked up...

urm Americans being quite after a plane goes missing,,,,
did they shoot it down to get rid of an individual, cia,involvement,
quick where's our resident conspiracy consultant (calling cem)

I have not said anything on this thread yet as I am too cynical at times..........

but, do the Americans, British, Russians, Chine, etc, all have satellites that see everything, including right up to individuals walking around?.......the operators of these satellites do not want everyone else to know how good their systems are, and where they are currently looking..............so they see an airliner turn around and eventually fly into the sea...........do you tell everyone that and so disclose the secrets of your system?.............the 239 people on board are dead............so you risk your national security by publishing quickly what you know to take some of the uncertainty away from the relatives, or you think of the millions within your nation and the potential security advantage you have for the future and say nothing, but chuck out a few statements that you have gleaned from your poor satellite images that four days ago there may have been certain pieces of debris in a certain area........by implication you are only admitting officially, although most other nations know otherwise, that your satellite surveillance systems are only able to see limited amounts and detail on the Earth's surface.......?

That is how I see it.

Lizzie .. a reasonable, but I'm afraid, inaccurate portrayal of the systems ... yes they can spot an individual, yes they can even read a paper, yes they can track an item .... but ONLY when targeted AT that point .. they do NOT scan the whole of the earths surface 24/7 picking up every tiny movement !! 

Why would they be tracking an innocuous scheduled airliner ?? ... they wouldn't, so they wouldn't have seen it "turn around and crash into the sea". The reason the pictures we are now getting are 14 days after the event .. is it takes about that time to reposition, then target the satellites, and then analyse the photo's obtained. Given the remoteness of the area concerened .. just WHY would any of the "powers" you mention be watching the area there is normally nothing there to see.. so assets would not be wasted in futile monitoring.

[Taxi_Driver]

Unless i am proved wrong....which is highly likely 

I still dont believe the aircraft crashed into the sea....

Why highjack an aircraft and then fly it for another 7 hours until it runs out of fuel??....then crash into the sea...doesnt make sense to me...

My thinking....if you highjack a plane and want to crash it....why wait 7 hours?? (until it runs out fuel) ....just crash it now!......if you want to take out a building/etc....then do that! ....not wait until it runs out of fuel....whats that achieved?? 

Also, why turn off the 'tracking' bits and bobs.....if you were just going to crash it....doesnt make sense to me 

[Entwood]

Unless i am proved wrong....which is highly likely 

I still dont believe the aircraft crashed into the sea....

Why highjack an aircraft and then fly it for another 7 hours until it runs out of fuel??....then crash into the sea...doesnt make sense to me...

My thinking....if you highjack a plane and want to crash it....why wait 7 hours?? (until it runs out fuel) ....just crash it now!......if you want to take out a building/etc....then do that! ....not wait until it runs out of fuel....whats that achieved?? 

Also, why turn off the 'tracking' bits and bobs.....if you were just going to crash it....doesnt make sense to me 

IMHO the amount of debris being found, and its position relative to the "best guesses" of Inmarsat/UKAAIB unfortunately strongly point to this being a "debris field" from an impact with the sea caused after the aircraft ran out of fuel.....

Why hijack and then fly until it runs out of fuel Several possibilities for that scenario ... a couple to ponder ....

1)  Botched hijack - they got the initial bits done then failed to fly to where they wanted to go ... possibly killed by their own attempts to incapacitate the crew & passengers

2) Elaborate suicide - someone with the mindset of taking their own life and as many others as they could with them - hijack the plane then fly as far as possible into a remote area in the hope that you are never found.

If this is the debris filed then the "political" hijack becomes remote, unless the botched/crew fight back scenario can be proven.

There then comes the technical fault scenario ... an attempt to turn back then crew incapacity leaving the aircraft on autopilot flying a straight line to oblivion - although why no radio calls is odd, but again, improbable theories may well actually be proved correct - eventually .....

[Kevin Wood]

I guess, in the suicide scenario, flying out into the back of beyond to hide the evidence from an insurance company might have been a motivation.

It will be a very interesting investigation when some evidence is found...

[05omegav6]

I guess, in the suicide scenario, flying out into the back of beyond to hide the evidence from an insurance company might have been a motivation.

It will be a very interesting investigation when if some evidence is found...

Indeed it will...

[Lagondanet]

I think the whole thing stinks. Starting with the plane not going into Vietnam airspace and changing direction.  Was everyone asleep? Would you now fly Malaysian?  I don't normally follow conspiracies but this one demands an answer.

[Varche]

OK, how about:


The pilots want to steal a valuable cargo of £M Diamonds in transit.
 
The passengers are neutralised by oxygen deprivation.(the 45,000 feet bit)

The perpetrators find the valuable cargo and their previously secreted parachutes.

Blow the door over the sea.

Set plane on auto pilot on this new course to the wilds of the Southern Indian Ocean

Parachute to waiting accomplices over or near land .

They know that no one will ever retrieve all the bodies


Few bits I don't like with that. How did they smuggle parachutes on board?
Can you get into the hold of an aircraft while it is in flight ? perhaps what they were after was in the cabin as hand luggage?
Can you parachute successfully from a 777 especially if you have set the auto pilot for a faster speed?