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[m.ian]

will upgrading my front discs to drilled and grooved will improve the overall braking?
Asking as discs need changing but not sure if increased cost for drilled will be worth the difference.

[Nick W]

On a road car?

No.

[TheBoy]

What are you trying to improve? Braking power or resistance to fade?

Nothing "serviceable" will improve braking power, and whilst you can improve resistance to fade, its usually a compromise (eg, very low braking performance when cold)

FYI, cheap drilled/groved discs are usually prone to cracking, which starts from the holes/groves and works out.


The standard setup with GM parts is pretty capable^*, and if you're hitting the limits of them, you need more serious brake work, beyond service items.


^* Specifically ignoring the individual view of those who expect a fart to result in a full blown 4 wheel lock up, as feel/progressiveness is a personal viewpoint that doesn't affect braking performance or durability.

[D]

^* Specifically ignoring the individual view of those who expect a fart to result in a full blown 4 wheel lock up, as feel/progressiveness is a personal viewpoint that doesn't affect braking performance or durability.

Well said.

[chrisgixer]

I have ebc "dimpled" and grooved discs taken from another car.

There is no difference in performance whatsoever. With the added interference of a slight buzzing sensation from the brake pedal, as the grooves pass over the brake pads. This decreases with wear.

As said for better brakes, it will mean bigger discs and bigger callipers. Although in the grand scheme of things, oe brake pads will give slightly better performance, as the tc ones are a much more cost effective option.



Re the very low level of servo assistance on the omega, that causes an amount of complaints on here and the desire for improvement in the first place... that will involve either modification or replacement of the brake servo. Something that vx attempted to address before omega production stopped, as later omega have an alteration that increases assistance under emergency braking. Going by some TIS entry's.

[TheBoy]

oe brake pads will give slightly better performance, as the tc ones are a much more cost effective option.

Currently running one car with TC, other with OE, the only difference I would say (dust aside!) is the OE ones have a better initial bite from cold, whereas the TC ones seem a little dull on first application in a journey 

Something that vx attempted to address before omega production stopped, as later omega have an alteration that increases assistance under emergency braking. Going by some TIS entry's.

It looks like a standard "emergency assist" alteration which were being added to all cars (including Fords, with their already hair trigger brakes!) at the time (and since), and unrelated to servo assistance is normal driving.  As you say, its a system designed to provide extra servo assistance on the initial press of the brake when doing emergency stops, and should be unnoticeable under other scenarios

[al brown]

I find the standard brakes are fine, yes the pedal is soft compared to other cars (unless you have driven a merc with servotronic brakes), but they work well for such a heavy car. I would suggest the extra money is better spent on tyres.

[TheBoy]

I would suggest the extra money is better spent on tyres.

A valid point. Braking efficiency also relies on the capabilities of the tyres, shocks (esp front) and everything else needed to generate maximum friction between the chassis and the ground, in addition to the capabilities of the braking components.

[tigers_gonads]

oe brake pads will give slightly better performance, as the tc ones are a much more cost effective option.

Currently running one car with TC, other with OE, the only difference I would say (dust aside!) is the OE ones have a better initial bite from cold, whereas the TC ones seem a little dull on first application in a journey 

Something that vx attempted to address before omega production stopped, as later omega have an alteration that increases assistance under emergency braking. Going by some TIS entry's.

It looks like a standard "emergencyassist" alteration which were being added to all cars (including Fords, with their already hair trigger brakes!) at the time (and since), and unrelated to servo assistance is normal driving.  As you say, its a system designed to provide extra servo assistance on the initial press of the brake when doing emergency stops, and should be unnoticeable under other scenarios

How does this "emergency assist work" ?

[chrisgixer]

Personally I find oe pads to be a few % better on bite and feel a cross the range of normal every day use. Which is why I want them fitted. If driving at 10 tenths all the time, its much less noticeable.

Understandably, some may balk at the price though.

[chrisgixer]

Also, Fords are only "massively over assisted" in the words of the master being banded about here, if your used to an omega, which is massively under assisted.

It can appear ridiculous by comparison. But it's not. Just two opposite ends of a given scale. If your prepared to describe fords assistance as hair trigger, you then have to equally accept that omega brakes as, at the very least, in need of updating. Especially given the family tree they come from.

What stands out most more is, that its amazing what us humans can get used to. Relatively speaking.

[TheBoy]

Also, Fords are only "massively over assisted" in the words of the master being banded about here, if your used to an omega, which is massively under assisted.

It can appear ridiculous by comparison. But it's not. Just two opposite ends of a given scale. If your prepared to describe fords assistance as hair trigger, you then have to equally accept that omega brakes as, at the very least, in need of updating. Especially given the family tree they come from.

I stand by my comments that Ford have too much of a hair trigger, resulting in a loss of feel. Even when used to a car, its still difficult to find the braking limit of the car without being in full ABS mode. Contrast that with the Omega's feedback, where anyone should be able to be able to be just touching the point of one wheel just activating ABS, but a bit more effort required on the pedal.

I guess for many, there will be a happy compromise somewhere in between. Its an area I don't want to compromise in, thus I'm happy to put a shade more effort into the pedal in order to get the control I desire.

What stands out most more is, that its amazing what us humans can get used to. Relatively speaking.

Left foot braking highlights that

[chrisgixer]

Also, Fords are only "massively over assisted" in the words of the master being banded about here, if your used to an omega, which is massively under assisted.

It can appear ridiculous by comparison. But it's not. Just two opposite ends of a given scale. If your prepared to describe fords assistance as hair trigger, you then have to equally accept that omega brakes as, at the very least, in need of updating. Especially given the family tree they come from.

I stand by my comments that Ford have too much of a hair trigger, resulting in a loss of feel. Even when used to a car, its still difficult to find the braking limit of the car without being in full ABS mode. Contrast that with the Omega's feedback, where anyone should be able to be able to be just touching the point of one wheel just activating ABS, but a bit more effort required on the pedal.

I guess for many, there will be a happy compromise somewhere in between. Its an area I don't want to compromise in, thus I'm happy to put a shade more effort into the pedal in order to get the control I desire.

I dont agree. Who are we to say one is better than the other? Just because "we" are used to one or the other.

But, add in a small diameter disc for the size and power of a 3.2. A relatively small single piston calliper, AND an almost complete absence of servo assistance, the end result leaves plenty of room for improvement.

[TheBoy]

The design is over 20yrs old, of course there is room for improvement, particularly for durability for a reasonably rapid, heavy motor, no matter how good it was in the early 1990s. The fact that for the vast, vast majority of owners, its still more than capable enough despite its age shows it was quite good in its day. But everything moves on

However, (perceived)(lack of) servo assistance I do not see as a deficiency. Quite the opposite.

[05omegav6]

Servo assistance and resistance to fade being two very different things