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[cem_devecioglu]

As hard as we try to make things foolproof, unfortunately, the fools are winning.

As I have said many times, the pace of development is only beaten by the human races ability to produce a better idiot

 

[jimbobmccoy]

Given the last few weeks I'm fairly sure they're increasing in number and gradually taking over

[chrisgixer]

As hard as we try to make things foolproof, unfortunately, the fools are winning.

As I have said many times, the pace of development is only beaten by the human races ability to produce a better idiot

 

A view of pure arrogance frankly. Accept that many a genuine situation arises that the manufacturer has not seen.


.....Or join the ranks of idiots . (Like Nokia)

[Marks DTM Calib]

It would appear to be a fact though sadly, as technology advances and more is 'done for us' with little thought required, it becomes even more challenging to design/develop as people are less aware of surroundings and actions.

[cem_devecioglu]

As hard as we try to make things foolproof, unfortunately, the fools are winning.

As I have said many times, the pace of development is only beaten by the human races ability to produce a better idiot

 

A view of pure arrogance frankly. Accept that many a genuine situation arises that the manufacturer has not seen.


.....Or join the ranks of idiots . (Like Nokia)

nothing to do with arrogance imo..  its a fact.. a biologic thing limited by space and resources irreversibly breeds and then poisons the only space we have and then kills others for getting more space and resources..  even an "idiot" definition insufficient imo

[chrisgixer]

So, back in the room then....

It would appear to be a fact though sadly, as technology advances and more is 'done for us' with little thought required, it becomes even more challenging to design/develop as people are less aware of surroundings and actions.

Equals budget. Penny wise, pound foolish etc etc....? I like a challenge personally.

Arguably though, it seems to me? a situation that's a result of development. People always expect more. What can it do for me? Oh it does that. That's brilliant..... Can it do this....? Yes it can. Wow. Ok, what about this... No, it can't. and disappointment follows.

Or, oh it does all these things. Good. I can go off and do something else. I can trust it, while I'm more efficient elsewhere.....oh look. I've trusted it to do all these things and poxy thing has crashed. I don't expect to sit there and hold its hand in case the developer hasn't done his job.

If the product needs it hand holding, has it failed? Or does it need further development. Or...should the designer tell the user to hold its hand?

Most of us appreciate if a car develops a fault the surrounding circumstances can help diagnose that fault. Although "I was driving to the shops" often comes up But we here are all mechanically minded, to a point. What about those that are not mechanically minded? I bet most of us are not particularly interested in how a till system works.


....unless of course, somebody is hiding something when using the till.

[Kevin Wood]

Most of us appreciate if a car develops a fault the surrounding circumstances can help diagnose that fault. Although "I was driving to the shops" often comes up But we here are all mechanically minded, to a point. What about those that are not mechanically minded? I bet most of us are not particularly interested in how a till system works.

Any time something breaks, be it a car, washing machine, TV, boiler, human body, etc. the first question is "What were you doing when it went wrong?".

The first step in diagnosing anything is to gather all the information you can surrounding the problem. I would have thought this would have been firmly entrenched in peoples' common sense by now, since they get a much better outcome if they are able to supply this information than if they just shrug their shoulders.

Oh, silly me! Assuming common sense...

[Entwood]

Most of us appreciate if a car develops a fault the surrounding circumstances can help diagnose that fault. Although "I was driving to the shops" often comes up But we here are all mechanically minded, to a point. What about those that are not mechanically minded? I bet most of us are not particularly interested in how a till system works.

Any time something breaks, be it a car, washing machine, TV, boiler, human body, etc. the first question is "What were you doing when it went wrong?".

The first step in diagnosing anything is to gather all the information you can surrounding the problem. I would have thought this would have been firmly entrenched in peoples' common sense by now, since they get a much better outcome if they are able to supply this information than if they just shrug their shoulders.

Oh, silly me! Assuming common sense...

Common Sense

 

[chrisgixer]

Most of us appreciate if a car develops a fault the surrounding circumstances can help diagnose that fault. Although "I was driving to the shops" often comes up But we here are all mechanically minded, to a point. What about those that are not mechanically minded? I bet most of us are not particularly interested in how a till system works.

Any time something breaks, be it a car, washing machine, TV, boiler, human body, etc. the first question is "What were you doing when it went wrong?".

The first step in diagnosing anything is to gather all the information you can surrounding the problem. I would have thought this would have been firmly entrenched in peoples' common sense by now, since they get a much better outcome if they are able to supply this information than if they just shrug their shoulders.

Oh, silly me! Assuming common sense...

Common Sense

 

So the answer in this case would be, along the lines of,  serving customers.( the equivelant to driving to the shops. ) why would they care? They're retail staff. Not mechanically minded you see.

Not everyone's brain works the same.

[jimbobmccoy]

A valid point-the right questions need to be asked to get the information needed for testing, not everyone will know what, or how to express, what the tester or programmer needs to know.

At the same time, if you went to a garage and said my car stopped working on the way to the shops it would be reasonable to tell them hiw fast you were going, maybe what gear you were in, was there oil, water, petrol in the car, did you hear any noises or so on. Normally you'd volunteer this info when telling them the car stopped working-to help them diagnose the fault.

Expecting the sales person to say I did x, y, and z and then this happened is no different.

The trouble is people roaming around oblivious to all except how long till there next break so they can check Facebook or the like.

[jimbobmccoy]

I meant their break. The grammar nazi in me is appalled!

[chrisgixer]

A valid point-the right questions need to be asked to get the information needed for testing, not everyone will know what, or how to express, what the tester or programmer needs to know.

At the same time, if you went to a garage and said my car stopped working on the way to the shops it would be reasonable to tell them hiw fast you were going, maybe what gear you were in, was there oil, water, petrol in the car, did you hear any noises or so on. Normally you'd volunteer this info when telling them the car stopped working-to help them diagnose the fault.

Expecting the sales person to say I did x, y, and z and then this happened is no different.

The trouble is people roaming around oblivious to all except how long till there next break so they can check Facebook or the like.

If I went to the garage yes.... If my Mum went to the garage, no.

Why are they are oblivious to all. Purely because they don't have the info needed...? It's the systems fault. Nobody else's.

Who put the system in place? Typical IT tech expecting everyone else to know what they know. Understand what they understand. They are counter staff. They deal will people. Not some half baked till system done on the cheap.

[TheBoy]

Equals budget. Penny wise, pound foolish etc etc....? I like a challenge personally.

<snip>

If the product needs it hand holding, has it failed? Or does it need further development. Or...should the designer tell the user to hold its hand?

In this case, its not penny pinching or budget related, though see your point of view talking more generally

In this case, yes, the product failed. No piece of software out there, beyond the simplest program, is bug free.  That's generally a well known fact, but you won't hear the marketers admit that

However, as Kevin Wood says, the first part of finding the fault (or even accepting that one exists - in this case clearly one does) is to gather the evidence, and the eye witnesses are key.  Surely they must have known what they were doing at the time...   ...surely... 

[05omegav6]

Apparently not, in order to have broken it in the first place...

[TheBoy]

Who put the system in place? Typical IT tech expecting everyone else to know what they know. Understand what they understand. They are counter staff. They deal will people. Not some half baked till system done on the cheap.

I put the system in, lock stock and barrel. The expectation is that the staff will not know why something goes wrong, but what they were doing when it went wrong. That's not an IT skill.

Flip it around, they sell (rather nice) watches amongst other things. If I bought one and it went wrong whilst I was doing something with it, its reasonable to expect that, whilst I wouldn't understand what had broken, I would know what I was doing when I broke it. IMHO anyway.

As for "on the cheap", cost isn't the factor here (within reason, including the industry standard (for his line of business) product at £16k per shop to buy, plus £700pm support contract). The reasons for me writing it is because nothing else as an integrated solution for stock control and performance reporting exists.