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[Rods2]

Unfortunately, large quantities of Russian armour is on the move from where the separatists created a corridor in the last few weeks in the Lugansk region.

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-123-for-diplomats-and-doubters-a-ministers-picture-of-a-russian-tank/

Russia have announced that they don't recognise the Ukraine border.

[cleggy]

I thought they'd just announced a cease-fire.

[Rods2]

I thought they'd just announced a cease-fire.

I think that has been done with a metaphorical gun held to the Ukrainian president's head, where the Ukrainian army has been winning in East Ukraine, but they are no match for a full Russian onslaught. Russia will probably say, they have invaded on humanitarian grounds (they haven't, this is a land grab) to try to minimise the protests and sanctions from the West.

The Ukrainian president had a phone call with Putin, just before the ceasefire was announced. So there was probably something along the lines: You cause Russian casualties by resisting we will take over all of Ukraine, no resistance and we will just annex the East (and probably South-East), and we will leave you (probably for now) West Ukraine. Russia is looking for a corridor to Transnistria to bring Moldova (by invading if necessary) back under their full sphere of influence, where Moldova are looking to join the EU and Nato.

The West is going to have to get very tough with Putin, where his next target is annexing the Baltic states. Again this will be, like in Ukraine, by using a 5th column, useful fools and unidentified, plausibly denied, green men etc. He is already trying to create unrest amongst ethnic Russians in these countries and squeezing them wherever possible economically. To stay in power where the economy and living standards have not been growing at a pace to keep Putin's key Russian officials happy with ever increasing living standards, he is going the alternative empire building route, to court popularity and to stay in power. With Crimea this worked with the highest ever approval rating of 80% by the Russian population.

The problems with this is that it is very easy to overstep the mark as you get over confident, like Hitler did with Poland and start a major European war and also the resistance trying to get back their country. Ethnic Russians are 17.3% of the population of Ukraine. Polls have shown the for the vast majority of Ukrainians (and many Ukrainian Russians) freedom and their right to self-determination is much more important than wealth. In Russia it is the reverse.

[cleggy]

This could get very nasty.

[cem_devecioglu]

I was curious how they stayed patient that long  

[PhilRich]

He who forgets History is doomed to repeat it!

The West seems to be sleepwalking into disaster on all Fronts, just as it did at the turn of the 20th Century!
Just when are we going to get the Leadership with the wisdom & foresight to say 'enough is enough!'

[Rods2]

How Russia has annexed Crimea and destabilized and is taking over Ukraine using "Asymmetric warfare" was outlined by the Russian General Staff to Putin about a year a go. The message has been there but very few have been taking any notice. This link below is a very interesting read. Their comment is that its success means it will probably be used again and again by them, which is seriously bad news for European and the worlds stability, when an unaccountable evil dictator has such levers under his control.

http://www.interpretermag.com/putins-actions-in-ukraine-following-script-by-russian-general-staff-a-year-ago/

If you follow in detail what is happening in Russia there have been over the last 12 months major clampdowns on press freedom (now non-existent, it is a state controlled propaganda machine), the Internet, blogging, personal freedom and human rights as well as foreign travel by large sections of the population. All military personnel, state officials and the judiciary have to get special permission to go abroad, unless it is in the line of duty.

Where Putin is determined to recreate the Russian empire, so Russian has some relevance in the world means he has actually been following a logical path for many years to achieve these aims. This includes paying off all foreign debt (a major cause of the collapse of the Soviet Union) to inciting protests like anti-fracking demonstrations to keep Western Europe dependent on Russian oil and gas.

All very well laughing cem but there are lives being lost here. Just anonymous names and numbers, until it is people you know. Turkey may well be in their line of sight as one of Russia's dominoes. The reason people don't want to be under Russian political leadership is that they treat the populations under their control very, very badly.

[cem_devecioglu]

How Russia has annexed Crimea and destabilized and is taking over Ukraine using "Asymmetric warfare" was outlined by the Russian General Staff to Putin about a year a go. The message has been there but very few have been taking any notice. This link below is a very interesting read. Their comment is that its success means it will probably be used again and again by them, which is seriously bad news for European and the worlds stability, when an unaccountable evil dictator has such levers under his control.

http://www.interpretermag.com/putins-actions-in-ukraine-following-script-by-russian-general-staff-a-year-ago/

If you follow in detail what is happening in Russia there have been over the last 12 months major clampdowns on press freedom (now non-existent, it is a state controlled propaganda machine), the Internet, blogging, personal freedom and human rights as well as foreign travel by large sections of the population. All military personnel, state officials and the judiciary have to get special permission to go abroad, unless it is in the line of duty.

Where Putin is determined to recreate the Russian empire, so Russian has some relevance in the world means he has actually been following a logical path for many years to achieve these aims. This includes paying off all foreign debt (a major cause of the collapse of the Soviet Union) to inciting protests like anti-fracking demonstrations to keep Western Europe dependent on Russian oil and gas.

All very well laughing cem but there are lives being lost here. Just anonymous names and numbers, until it is people you know. Turkey may well be in their line of sight as one of Russia's dominoes. The reason people don't want to be under Russian political leadership is that they treat the populations under their control very, very badly.

there are lives lost everywhere Rods .. all being equal worth..  either eastern or western..  or whereever..


we have fought with Russia for hundreds of years until the Ottoman Empire died and soon after Russian empire died..


but this is an internal affair - not even a war-  and has nothing to do with us or anyone..  in my opinion  Ukraine is a part of Russia , same people talking the same language ..


and you are only reading one sides newspapers .. Imo..

[cem_devecioglu]

and one more point, if west didnt involve in Ukraine with some carrots ,solutions would be more easy..

[plym ian]

Funny that I thought they had invaded England



Cause there's so many of them over here

[cem_devecioglu]

although unrelated, if west want to do something good for the future of world, why not get rid of those mollas in iran.. they are keeping whole of their citizens under pressure.. and continously exporting sh*t heads to middle east for terror and violence

[Sir Tigger KC]

although unrelated, if west want to do something good for the future of world, why not get rid of those mollas in iran.. they are keeping whole of their citizens under pressure.. and continously exporting sh*t heads to middle east for terror and violence

It seems as though we're doing a fair bit of that as well with reportedly an estimated 400 Brits fighting in Syria!   

[cleggy]

although unrelated, if west want to do something good for the future of world, why not get rid of those mollas in iran.. they are keeping whole of their citizens under pressure.. and continously exporting sh*t heads to middle east for terror and violence

It seems as though we're doing a fair bit of that as well with reportedly an estimated 400 Brits fighting in Syria!   

They are not Brits  just someone with a British Passport, which should be revoked.

[05omegav6]

You say that Cleggy, but most were born here, which technically makes them as British as you or I

I suspect their immigrant parents/grandparents are for the most part ashamed by the presence of their offspring in these conflicts... after all, they presumably came here to get away from all that indoctrined crap in order that their families could lead a better life...

[cleggy]

You say that Cleggy, but most were born here, which technically makes them as British as you or I

I suspect their immigrant parents/grandparents are for the most part ashamed by the presence of their offspring in these conflicts... after all, they presumably came here to get away from all that indoctrined crap in order that their families could lead a better life...

I not only say it but stand by it, NOT BRITS and never can be. They may have been born here, the offspring of immigrants and are rewarded with what was once a document to be proud of.... a BRITISH PASSPORT. They defile it nobody who is a true Brit would go and be a jihadist, they do not respect our values and the life given to them and their parents. Personally I would not only remove that precious document from them but all their family and boot them out.