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[chrisgixer]

Re fitting the ball joint pin, it's very much easier with poly fitted, as there's no resistance from the front poly bush, unlike the stiff rubber of the oe ones. Otherwise, leverage is your friend.
I use the the "long pry bar in the wishbone hole" method, to lever it down, then tuck the pry bar under your knee/behind your leg. That frees up your hands.

I find the key is to pull the pin out so it leans as far outboard as possible, at an angle. (A stiff ball joint is key to this, if its loose or worn then the rubber boot moves the pin upright and it becomes much more awkward.) That also gives a fraction more room, then get the hub hole on top of the pin, then if you push the strut leg inboard on the right plane it just pops in when the ball joint pin is at the right angle.

[flyer 0712]

At first i would agree with t.paget that why should you have to have camber and the rest checked because of changing wishbones  after having read all the articles on changing  wishbones put on here by people lots wiser than myself i can now see why you have to,as stated no two are the same and therefore tolerances  could be different and would put the measurements out thus wear on tyres and strange steering effects..Ali said would you just buy one shoe instead of a pair ?? well you may do if you have an artificial limb as that side would last longer than your normal side as the normal side takes all the pressure to steady you as you walk on the artificial limb so less wear on the artificial side  Also i was considering doing the job myself however as i do not weigh 17 stone and i am getting on a bit in life i think again i will pass that one on to my friendly local garage..So just goes to show how informative this forum is and all the info on here is free,now you cant get better than that,

[chrisgixer]

If your getting a garage to do the work, and their fitting bones with oe bushes, do make sure they tighten the front wb bolts with wheels loaded.

....NOT WITH WHEELS HANGING/CAR IN THE AIR.

Front bolts must be tightened with the car sitting at the normal ride height.


(Does not apply to poly)

[flyer 0712]

thank you Dr gixer...noted and  I will make sure he does just that.

[terry paget]

Re fitting the ball joint pin, it's very much easier with poly fitted, as there's no resistance from the front poly bush, unlike the stiff rubber of the oe ones. Otherwise, leverage is your friend.
I use the the "long pry bar in the wishbone hole" method, to lever it down, then tuck the pry bar under your knee/behind your leg. That frees up your hands.

I find the key is to pull the pin out so it leans as far outboard as possible, at an angle. (A stiff ball joint is key to this, if its loose or worn then the rubber boot moves the pin upright and it becomes much more awkward.) That also gives a fraction more room, then get the hub hole on top of the pin, then if you push the strut leg inboard on the right plane it just pops in when the ball joint pin is at the right angle.

Thanks Chris, two good tips there.
In the past I have done it with my knee over the lever, but it's tricky. I find it easier with the wife on the lever. She probably won't do it again.
Next time I shall make a point of having the pin pointing outwards when inserting it into the hub.
 

[terry paget]

By moving the subframe there's about 10mm scope at each of the six subframe bolts...

Thanks. I imagine the top strut bearing is fixed, so the adjustment is by moving the subframe fore and aft. I'll wager it's quite stiff after 12 years of rust, not very critical, and hardly ever out of specification. WIM can measure it, but I wonder how often they have to adjust it. Does WIM give members before and after data?

[05omegav6]

By moving the subframe there's about 10mm scope at each of the six subframe bolts...

Thanks. I imagine the top strut bearing is fixed, so the adjustment is by moving the subframe fore and aft/ and left and right. I'll wager it's quite stiff after 12 years of rust, not very critical, and hardly ever out of specification. You'd be surprised... WIM can measure it, but I wonder how often they have to adjust it. Have tweaked mine twice, once pre and once post frontal prang. Does WIM give members before and after data? Yes

[terry paget]

By moving the subframe there's about 10mm scope at each of the six subframe bolts...

Thanks. I imagine the top strut bearing is fixed, so the adjustment is by moving the subframe fore and aft/ and left and right. I'll wager it's quite stiff after 12 years of rust, not very critical, and hardly ever out of specification. You'd be surprised... WIM can measure it, but I wonder how often they have to adjust it. Have tweaked mine twice, once pre and once post frontal prang. Does WIM give members before and after data? Yes

Thanks, Al. I stand corrected, enlightened, and impressed.
I accept after a front end prang all settings should be reset.
Last night on TV I saw a clip from 'Easy Rider' with the motorcycle front forks at a very strange castor angle. Or have I got the wrong angle?

[TheBoy]

Does WIM give members before and after data?

Absolutely.

I've had to have the castor adjusted on 2 of mine before, unsure if that was because it had shifted, something had bent, or ze Germans didn't bolt it together accurately when they built it.

[chrisgixer]

Does WIM give members before and after data?

Absolutely.

I've had to have the castor adjusted on 2 of mine before, unsure if that was because it had shifted, something had bent, or ze Germans didn't bolt it together accurately when they built it.

The amount of play in those holes gives plenty of scope for huge variances. Ask wim, or any set up company. Production lines don't allow time for piddling about measuring fractions of a mill. It's all designed to be bolted together easily and on time.

Although more expensive marques are getting better. I'm sure you've seen new Astons at wim getting set up prior to final delivery.

If I had a new car, first thing on the list, get it set up. No way would I trust production line tolerances.

[dbug]

Re fitting the ball joint pin, it's very much easier with poly fitted, as there's no resistance from the front poly bush, unlike the stiff rubber of the oe ones. Otherwise, leverage is your friend.
I use the the "long pry bar in the wishbone hole" method, to lever it down, then tuck the pry bar under your knee/behind your leg. That frees up your hands.

I find the key is to pull the pin out so it leans as far outboard as possible, at an angle. (A stiff ball joint is key to this, if its loose or worn then the rubber boot moves the pin upright and it becomes much more awkward.) That also gives a fraction more room, then get the hub hole on top of the pin, then if you push the strut leg inboard on the right plane it just pops in when the ball joint pin is at the right angle.

Thanks Chris, two good tips there.
In the past I have done it with my knee over the lever, but it's tricky. I find it easier with the wife on the lever. She probably won't do it again.
Next time I shall make a point of having the pin pointing outwards when inserting it into the hub.

You want to rent her out to OOF members mate

[terry paget]

Does WIM give members before and after data?

Absolutely.

I've had to have the castor adjusted on 2 of mine before, unsure if that was because it had shifted, something had bent, or ze Germans didn't bolt it together accurately when they built it.

The amount of play in those holes gives plenty of scope for huge variances. Ask wim, or any set up company. Production lines don't allow time for piddling about measuring fractions of a mill. It's all designed to be bolted together easily and on time.

Although more expensive marques are getting better. I'm sure you've seen new Astons at wim getting set up prior to final delivery.

If I had a new car, first thing on the list, get it set up. No way would I trust production line tolerances.

This thread is proving very instructive to me, I thank all the experts for their advice. It is fascinating to learn that cars straight from the factory need setting up properly to drive well.

I have not researched this at all, but I wonder how critical castor angle is. Easy Rider bikes show it can vary by many degrees and still not make bikes unrideable. Camber angle varies with suspension movement so may not affect feel and handling much. Toe-in is the setting that is critical to handing and feel in my experience.

 I run a six Omegas fleet for my family, seem to change about two a year buying on e-bay, and they all seem to feel and handle the same. If a new one feels wrong, after checking the tyres first thing I do is reset the toe-in with steering wheel central at straight ahead, if still dodgy I check wishbone front bushes and ball joints, changing when necessary. We do not race or rally our Omegas, just drive around in them. They are all end of life cars, way beyond their 7 year design life. They provide my family with cheap, reliable, luxurious transport. My point is that I have never had one that seems to be particularly awful in feel and handling, or especially good. Perhaps we are not very critical.

[05omegav6]

Start chucking them around and the tyre wear will soon highlight any geometry discrepancies

[TheBoy]

For the sedate driver, all geo angles - camber, castor and toe on Omegas - will show with uneven or high tyre wear, pulls, or a willingness to seemingly turn better one way than the other.

[chrisgixer]

Does WIM give members before and after data?

Absolutely.

I've had to have the castor adjusted on 2 of mine before, unsure if that was because it had shifted, something had bent, or ze Germans didn't bolt it together accurately when they built it.

The amount of play in those holes gives plenty of scope for huge variances. Ask wim, or any set up company. Production lines don't allow time for piddling about measuring fractions of a mill. It's all designed to be bolted together easily and on time.

Although more expensive marques are getting better. I'm sure you've seen new Astons at wim getting set up prior to final delivery.

If I had a new car, first thing on the list, get it set up. No way would I trust production line tolerances.

This thread is proving very instructive to me, I thank all the experts for their advice. It is fascinating to learn that cars straight from the factory need setting up properly to drive well.

I have not researched this at all, but I wonder how critical castor angle is. Easy Rider bikes show it can vary by many degrees and still not make bikes unrideable.

slooooow steering on a bike, hard to turn but wants to fall to the side at slower speeds. On cars, not sure but similar sensation on steering, with the added effect on cantering the steering wheel out of a turn. I forget which way round, I guess the contact patch being wider than on a bike means the more raked out it is, the more then pc entering effect.

Camber angle varies with suspension movement so may not affect feel and handling much.

camber is taken as a static measurement and its assumed this is the same at speed as an average. Obviously there's pitch for and aft on the brakes and body roll in corners, but it's the static measurement that's used as most of the time the car is at a constant speed on a straight road.

Toe-in is the setting that is critical to handing and feel in my experience.

Actually, I find, and it's generally accepted that, camber is far more intrusive on basic handling*, especially as the tyre wears to that setting. It starts off leant over so wants to turn. Then as it wears it becomes cone shaped, or "geared" as the guys at Dunlop call it, so then it wants to turn even more. Add in road imperfections that affect the contact patch of that geared cambered wheel and tyre, and the fact that that contact patch won't always be the same on both sides, (you then have uneven performance a across an axle;) ) then things become very lively indeed, especially towards the end of a tyres life. Then add in an enthusiastic driver to accelerate that tyre wear process and it can all go tits up before the tyre is worn in the middle, as the edges are scrubbed off the tyre becomes round in profile due to camber deflection with different ride heights. Basically the directional stability of the front tyres are lost and the things tramlines all over the place. Which I hate.

 I run a six Omegas fleet for my family, seem to change about two a year buying on e-bay, and they all seem to feel and handle the same. If a new one feels wrong, after checking the tyres first thing I do is reset the toe-in with steering wheel central at straight ahead, if still dodgy I check wishbone front bushes and ball joints, changing when necessary.

Have a look here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90492.0

We do not race or rally our Omegas, just drive around in them.

see * below

They are all end of life cars, way beyond their 7 year design life. They provide my family with cheap, reliable, luxurious transport. My point is that I have never had one that seems to be particularly awful in feel and handling, or especially good. Perhaps we are not very critical.

possibly, but IMO these cars are indeed past their best, as you say, but that's not to say that's a situation that we should accept if we don't want to. The metal structures last well enough. The parts that are important for handling are the squidgy bits. Bushes mainly, on wishbones and rear donuts in the sub frame make the best improvements in accurate straight line handling, shocks and springs, set up and tyre wear, or more accurately tyre profile

* in almost all cases, handling starts with the simple task of driving in a straight line IMO. I'm not talking about cornering at all. Not even slightly. In fact, I rarely have an issue in corners with omegas at all. It's always straight line stability that cause the problems, as in the link. Therefor handling is nothing at all to do with performance or sport driving

Made a bollards of that, sorry.
Hopefully the quotes are deciephrable.