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[TheBoy]

Sir Tigger's thread got me thinking. If the useless civil servant run Northants council had cocked up the adoption of a small road leading nowhere, does that make it a private road? Thus, could residents leave untaxed, uninsured vehicles on it (accepting the fact that any accident may cause civil action etc etc)?

[zirk]

Sir Tigger's thread got me thinking. If the useless civil servant run Northants council had cocked up the adoption of a small road leading nowhere, does that make it a private road? Thus, could residents leave untaxed, uninsured vehicles on it (accepting the fact that any accident may cause civil action etc etc)?

As far as I know, it all depends who is responsible for Maintaining the Road, ie a Private individual(s) or Public Funded (Designated as a Private Road but maintained by the Council)..

Theres quite a few so called sign posted 'Private Roads' around here, and not on the Map, but as said in the other thread around here they would clamp it, and remove it.

[zirk]

Also this might help, assuming the rules hasn't changed since then. 

http://oldsite.omegaowners.com//forum/YaBB.pl?num=1222794030/all

[zirk]

And just to add a bit more confusion to the definition of an unadopted road, I seem to remember if the Grass Verge or Pavement is maintained by public funds or the road leads to Public Access, ie People can walk along the Private Road to get access to a Public Footpath or right of way, then in both cases it is deemed as a Public Highway.

So you could in theory park your Car on a Private or unadopted road thats not maintained or classified as a Public Highway but only if its on Sorn, if just Un licensed then it could still be clamped or lifted, even though you can legally drive it up and down the said road without a Driving Licence, Tax, Insurance and MOT. I wonder if they work on the theory thats its probably a bit impossible to clamp or lift a car whilst its been driven. Confusing isn't it.

[TheBoy]

I know when we applied to close the road for the Juliblee celebrations, the council said they couldn't give the permission as it hadn't been adopted yet (the estate was finished 10yrs earlier). Not entirely sure what that means, other than we can close the road whenever we wish.


Related, assuming it is private or whatever, does that mean traffic laws don't apply (not that its long enough to misbehave, plus there are little ones around)?

[JamesV6CDX]

As far as the Road traffic act / road traffic offenders act are concerned, the legal points to prove almost always involve a person, using a motor vehicle or mpv (something made, adapted or intended for road use) on a Road.

The legal definition of road is any highway or road to which the public have access.

So if it resembles a road/street/lane etc, not clearly marked as private land, and the public can seemingly access / drive on it, the road traffic act applies. Whether a local agency has taken it on for the purposes of upkeep yet or has abandoned it, matters not

[Taxi_Driver]

I know when we applied to close the road for the Juliblee celebrations, the council said they couldn't give the permission as it hadn't been adopted yet (the estate was finished 10yrs earlier). Not entirely sure what that means, other than we can close the road whenever we wish.


Related, assuming it is private or whatever, does that mean traffic laws don't apply (not that its long enough to misbehave, plus there are little ones around)?

Assuming all residents agree......

As far as know.....if its an unadopted road, then yes, traffic laws dont apply.....i regularly drive down an an unadopted road that says 'No Entry...Buses Only'.....never been pulled for doing so...i know its unadopted as the final tar layer isnt there.....and not likely to be until the housing has been finished...

[TheBoy]

Assuming all residents agree......

Yes, exactly. Not really a problem here, as if one of the residents isn't able to make one of our parties, they just move their car to another resident's' driveway that won't be blocked.

We're lucky here, from a neighbourhood perspective

[hotel21]

As far as the Road traffic act / road traffic offenders act are concerned, the legal points to prove almost always involve a person, using a motor vehicle or mpv (something made, adapted or intended for road use) on a Road.

The legal definition of road is any highway or road to which the public have access.

So if it resembles a road/street/lane etc, not clearly marked as private land, and the public can seemingly access / drive on it, the road traffic act applies. Whether a local agency has taken it on for the purposes of upkeep yet or has abandoned it, matters not

So as far as te original question of SORN, how does the VERA apply?  Is it not a road repairable atpiblic expense?

[TheBoy]

As far as the Road traffic act / road traffic offenders act are concerned, the legal points to prove almost always involve a person, using a motor vehicle or mpv (something made, adapted or intended for road use) on a Road.

The legal definition of road is any highway or road to which the public have access.

So if it resembles a road/street/lane etc, not clearly marked as private land, and the public can seemingly access / drive on it, the road traffic act applies. Whether a local agency has taken it on for the purposes of upkeep yet or has abandoned it, matters not

So as far as te original question of SORN, how does the VERA apply?  Is it not a road repairable atpiblic expense?

Who knows who repairs it (actually, no bugger repairs anything around here, roadwise ).  I know the residents trim the verges, weedkill the kerbs etc etc, but that's probably more to do with impatience than anything else.

[Rods2]

JamesV6CDX is spot on. I live in an unadopted road, but it is a public right of way, so a car must be taxed, have an MOT and be insured if it is parked on it as several people have found to their cost over the years, where the police have ticketed them.

The unadopted part just means I'm responsible not the council for the upkeep and repair for my side of the road (which would also include the grass verge if I had one), for the length of the frontage. And no you don't get any council tax reduction for the privileged of this extra responsibility and potential expense.

Needless to say if any of the utilities dig up the road and do less than a perfect restoration, we always get them back to re-repair, so as to stop any expensive repairs at our expense in the future.

[hotel21]

Its been a while since my last 'job' shift and may not be the current method, but heres what I base my thoughts on from current legislation.  Apologies to those currently serving if I am way off the current mark.

Leaving the offence of not notifying SORN aside (an offence in its own right, as I understand) for example in a private garage and answering the original question of parking on an unadopted road, here is my understanding.

Road traffic Act offences - drink, drugs, insurance, licences, con and use etc etc. all apply on any road as per the act (could even be a farmers field if public have access for a particular purpose), where a 'road' is:- (a) in relation to England and Wales, means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes ,and (b) in relation to Scotland, means any road within the meaning of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 and any other way to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes. 
 
Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.

section 29
Penalty for using or keeping unlicensed vehicle.
(1) If a person uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle (not being an exempt vehicle) which is unlicensed he is guilty of an offence.

"public road”— (a) in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, means a road which is repairable at the public expense, and (b) in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984.
Therefore I read that Rods2 is correct to an extent.

Yes, the various RTA offences are nickable on an unadopted road, but Vehicle Excise is not.

Hope this helps.   

[JamesV6CDX]

Yes, the various RTA offences are nickable on an unadopted road, but Vehicle Excise is not.

Hope this helps.   

That's my understanding

[Rods2]

That is interesting, so two people I know who were nicked for no tax, shouldn't have been.

[zirk]

That is interesting, so two people I know who were nicked for no tax, shouldn't have been. :(

Guessing it depends whether it was Sorn or Unlicensed, as the DVLA have more powers when come to No Tax and not Sorn. Or the Vehicles were 'In The Trade'. its not physically possible for a Trader to put the car on Sorn the system wont allow it. In fact its not actually legal for a Trader to Tax a Car whilst its in the Trade but thats another story.