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[evildrome]

Hi All,

 Are the V6 coil packs single or wasted spark?

 Also, which pin is +ve?

 And... expert question... are these coils held at 12v all the time till the ECU brings the primary to ground or is the 12V line switched on & off as required by the ECU?

(BTW my coil has 4 control pins and 6 turrets for plug leads)

Thanks,

 Wilson.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Its a wasted spark coil system with a 12V feed where the ECU has a low side driver internally to pull the other leg of the coil to 0V.

I don't recall which is the pos sadly but its should be easy to identify either with a resistance meter or a quick look at the schematic.

[Kevin Wood]

12V Feed to the coil packs can be identified by wire colour - black with a red tracer. (on DBW engines, anyway). The individual negative legs are blue with various tracers.

[evildrome]

Thanks guys!

I don't have an Omega so I can't check the wiring.

A link to a schematic would be great

I'm here for an odd reason. I want to make a distributorless ignition for my 1973 Jaguar XJ12 because the distributor is a) shagged, b) fouling one of the six double barrel downdraught Webers I'm trying to fit to it.

The Omega V6 coil packs look to be about right for what I'm doing.

I am, to be fair, more of a Vauxhall man than anything I guess. My father & I put 250,000 miles on his X reg Cavy. 1 clutch, 2 cams, 3 sets of CV joints, 1 big end renewal (my fault).

I did rent a Omega when they first came out. It had a slush box and the brakes were horrendous digital devices. ON or OFF.

I would have loved a Senator.

My vehicle history...

Vauxhall Viva SL90   1983 - 1989
Jaguar XJ12L  SII   1989 - present
Vauxhall Carlton      1990 - 1993
Vauxhall Cavalier   1993 - 1995
Ford Cortina      1995 - 1996
Vauxhall Cavalier   1995 - 1999
Maxda MX3      1999 - 2002          (a bit gay but pleasantly nippy V6)
Volkswagen Golf GTI Mk2   2002 - 2005  (awesome but rusty)
Volkswagen Golf GTI Mk3   2005 - 2007  (shite & rusty)
Honda CRX               2007 - 2007           (mental go-cart of a thing)
Fiat Brava             2007 - 2009
Fiat Brava             2009 - 2011
Ford Courier 1.8D     2011 - present (1994, 1 owner, FFSH, given to me. handy)

Current vehicles: Ford Courier 1.8D,  Jaguar XJ12L  SII

[05omegav6]

The Omega Haynes manual contains pretty comprehensive old fashion wiring diagrams rather than the newer manuals cartoon rubbish

Guess you're looking at two 2.5/3.0 Dis packs (6 cylinders apiece) rather than fitting four 2.6/3.0 coil packs (3 plugs per coilpack)

[evildrome]

@Taxi Al  yes, its the two Dis packs

@Temetsy Thanks, I'll pm you my email.

Basically, I need to know if I can leave one side of the primary permanently on all the time and just bring the other side of the primary to ground to fire it or if I need to switch the 12V line on shortly before grounding.

Its quite important as it means adding another timing circuit and another map. Which would be a gigantic PITA.

Cheers,

 Wilson.

[Broomies Mate]

My vehicle history...

Vauxhall Viva SL90   1983 - 1989
Jaguar XJ12L  SII   1989 - present
Vauxhall Carlton      1990 - 1993
Vauxhall Cavalier   1993 - 1995
Ford Cortina      1995 - 1996
Vauxhall Cavalier   1995 - 1999
Maxda MX3      1999 - 2002          (a bit gay but pleasantly nippy V6)
Volkswagen Golf GTI Mk2   2002 - 2005  (awesome but rusty)
Volkswagen Golf GTI Mk3   2005 - 2007  (shite & rusty)
Honda CRX               2007 - 2007           (mental go-cart of a thing)
Fiat Brava             2007 - 2009
Fiat Brava             2009 - 2011
Ford Courier 1.8D     2011 - present (1994, 1 owner, FFSH, given to me. handy)

Current vehicles: Ford Courier 1.8D,  Jaguar XJ12L  SII

Off Topic I know, But.....

Probably the first 'history list' where I liked the first part, liked the middle part and thought, what the hell has gone on here?

FIAT BRAVA?  Not 1, but 2 of the hateful things?

Good luck with the Jaaaaaaag though.  Nice car. 

[Kevin Wood]

Basically, I need to know if I can leave one side of the primary permanently on all the time and just bring the other side of the primary to ground to fire it or if I need to switch the 12V line on shortly before grounding.

Yes, what you propose will work perfectly, and is exactly how the OEM setup does things.

What engine management are you planning to run?

Should be some beast when it's done, albeit with a thirst with Weber downdraughts.

Still, a mapped ignition system will help.

[Kevin Wood]

Oh, and a Haynes manual for a fiver from Ebay is your best source of wiring info for the earlier engines with the 6 plug coil pack, as mentioned. Those diagrams aren't widely available in electronic form.

[evildrome]

@Broomies Mate

Poverty & a wean = cheap shitty motors.

Pranged the first one, bought a 2nd for £150 with a blown ECU and swapped out the good bits from the first one.


@Kevin Wood 

The engine management system is home made (or will be, still writing the assembler).
Its based on a 48Mhz PIC18F4550 because its cheap and has three 16 bit timer circuits. I started off with the PIC16F877 which also has 3 timer circuits but only one is 16 bit.

The goal is to keep all the code running in interrupts (bombproof) and have the timing done by the chip itself (i.e. use the hardware timers). I've got 2 VR sensors & rings, one with 5 segments and one on top of the other with 1 segment.
The single segment ring is setup for 10 BTDC on 1A. The other 5 let me fire the rest of the cylinders via the hardware interrupts. Each time the interrupt for 1A goes off it resets everything which means that any measurement that may be drifting can only do so for 1 revolution of the engine.
 
And it'll have a MAP sensor & coolant sensor and maybe one day, a Lambda sensor.

Actually what I'd like to have is ionization current sensing so I can run the engine at MBT (maximum brake torque) in a closed loop and junk all the other sensors. Its very sexy but the coils are one per cylinder and have all the funky sensing stuff built into each coil and I need 12 of them = big $$$. And the whole point of this is small $$$.

I'd post pictures and links & stuff but I appear to be on moderation.

[Kevin Wood]

Sounds like a very interesting project you have there!

I used to tinker with Megasquirt going back 10 years or so and contributed a bit of code to that project. I run it on my Westfield but only 4 pots to worry about there so it's a bit less complex!

ION sensing is indeed the holy grail. Not been following it for a few years. It got to the point where I was only driving my car with a laptop on the passenger seat, which is certainly not the way to enjoy a 5s 0-60 time! So, I made a decision to "just effing drive it". 

IIRC SAAB were the trailblazers in closed loop ignition back then, but I'm guessing that's all changed now. Hmm. Might have to get back into the fold and have a play.

Anyway, you should be off moderation after another couple of posts, so please do keep us updated on this project. I for one will be very interested.

[evildrome]

I looked at megasquirt and harder at megajolt.

At the end of the day, what with having a V12, the cost of extra parts, shipping from the states, etc made both uneconomic.

That and I want to learn to program microcontrollers. Its always best to have an interesting project if you're learning.

There's a lot of interesting information on ion sensing in this PDF:

https://delphi.com/shared/pdf/ppd/pwrtrn/ionization-current-sensing-ignition-susbystem.pdf

My XJ is here www.xj12l.com

Cheers,

 Wilson.

[Kevin Wood]

Yep, agreed. Megasquirt is no longer really a low-cost solution. It was pretty reasonable when I built mine because you could just buy a bare board and populate it with locally sourced parts, to the extent that your install required. Now its' increasing flexibility and reliance on pre-assembled surface mount boards has made it a bit costly, especially with the number of coil drivers you'll need.

Then again, it's still a good bit cheaper than the comparable off-the-shelf systems, but there's less fun in it now that everything has "been done".

The only thing that might be a "budget" setup worthy of consideration for you might be running 2 EDIS6 modules, one for each bank. Then the crank synchronisation and coil driving is done for you, and you only need to generate the timing information. Again, it's removing some "fun" from the equation, though.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I would expect a knock sensor input to be considerably more useful than an O2 one given your setup (i.e. no mixture control)

[Kevin Wood]

I would expect a knock sensor input to be considerably more useful than an O2 one given your setup (i.e. no mixture control)

It'd probably be too depressing to know what the mixture is doing!

My miles per tank increased by a factor of 1.5 when I ditched my Weber carbs and it took me an afternoon of "on the road" DIY mapping to achieve this, along with much better performance to boot.

Might be worth considering the injection route, since you're going to be more than half way there with the electronics anyway, especially on something that's hardly going to be frugal!