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[flyer 0712]

Just interested....seth...if by bleeding the system may cause it to work ok for a while and then it  starts to do it again,,,,what would be wrong with the master cylinder to make it do that..thanks 

[tigers_gonads]

no lips on discs as they are new,,,,,,they were changed because of this problem but it remains....however will tell him to check the the new discs just in case   thanks   

Just for reference, I drove my shed for 6 months on knackered front discs (large ridge / corrosion causing heavy vibration when braking hard / brakes quite hot)

Changed the discs and pads for genuine parts last month because of these symptoms but the fault remained.
Noticed that the tracking was slightly out but I was not to worried as I would need replacement tyres soon and I wanted to replace the shocks all around anyway (when funds allow)
I noticed last week the tracking was getting worse so popped into the local tyre place for a tracking check on the understanding that I could get under there with a bar first to see if they was and play in any joints.
Checked the joints, no problem.
Jacked it up and checked for wobble on the wheel.
Put it this way, I have big gonads when it comes to most things but I drove the car home at 15 mph with the hazards on and parked up.
The car hasn't move since 

Oh yeh, It went through a MOT during the 1st week of September 

Basically, the wheel went from "a little vibration when braking heavy / hot" too "a totally collapsed bearing" in about 3 weeks 

[terry paget]

What are the rear discs like?

[flyer 0712]

To be honest the rear discs and pads look to be ok with no lips on discs and pads half worn,,but did not check them for being warped...thats next on his list now,

[chrisgixer]

If the discs where warped, or incorrectly seated, or out of true in any way,  you'd feel inconsistent brake force the slower the speed when braking. So in effect you'd be nodding your head as you pull up at the lights etc.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

If the discs where warped, or incorrectly seated, or out of true in any way,  you'd feel inconsistent brake force the slower the speed when braking. So in effect you'd be nodding your head as you pull up at the lights etc.

I may have this problem.

Front discs and pads have covered over 30,000 miles.

[Entwood]

If the discs where warped, or incorrectly seated, or out of true in any way,  you'd feel inconsistent brake force the slower the speed when braking. So in effect you'd be nodding your head as you pull up at the lights etc.

I may have this problem.

Front discs and pads have covered over 30,000 miles.

Brakes very, very rarely "warp" ... think of it .. the disc is pretty thick and robust ... just how does it warp so easily as people make out ??

The answer .. it doesn't !

http://www.powerbrake.co.za/tech_info/tech_01_judder.htm

http://www.powerbrake.co.za/tech_info/tech_03_warping.htm

[05omegav6]

Not allowing for heat dissipation, or lack of, holding the brakes on after working them hard...

[Entwood]

Not allowing for heat dissipation, or lack of, holding the brakes on after working them hard...

yup ... primary causes of DTV .. not warping ...  blame Cementite .... 

[Andy B]

Not allowing for heat dissipation, or lack of, holding the brakes on after working them hard...

and using cheap pattern discs 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Not allowing for heat dissipation, or lack of, holding the brakes on after working them hard...

and using cheap pattern discs 

I hope my replacement £88 Pagid discs and pads come come under this description?..

[Andy B]

Not allowing for heat dissipation, or lack of, holding the brakes on after working them hard...

and using cheap pattern discs 

I hope my replacement £88 Pagid discs and pads come come under this description?..

the cheap pattern discs for the front of my Senator 24 valve were included 

[05omegav6]

Not allowing for heat dissipation, or lack of, holding the brakes on after working them hard...

and using cheap pattern discs 

Whatever Devon and Cornwall Constabulary had endowed it with before I bought it

[flyer 0712]

That write up is very interesting reading....what appears to be a simple subject...brake judder....turns out to be a very deep and complicated issue...However  after reading the explanation that has been posted,it does help to not only disperse (old wives tales ) but also to under stand the issue properly,,

[Seth]

Not allowing for heat dissipation, or lack of, holding the brakes on after working them hard...

'Cadence braking' ... as practised by train drivers