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Please play nicely.  No one wants to listen/read a keyboard warriors rants....

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Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 1255 times)

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Rods2

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Ukraine
« on: 10 January 2015, 20:43:56 »

Since the latest ceasefire on December 9th by Ukrainian and mainly Russian forces in the Donbass region the level of fighting dropped significantly. Ukraine's ROE are currently: "No shooting back unless lives are in imminent danger" and the Russian mercenaries have abided by it more than previous ceasefires. Violations by the Russian troops and mercenaries has been mainly by small arms fire and the occasional mortar attack. 

However, the levels of Russian armour and troops crossing the border into the Donbass region has increased significantly since the beginning of November including vehicles and weapons systems that have only recently entered service in Russia like BPM-97's (evidence here: https://pressimus.com/Interpreter_Mag/press/6053) (is Russia using the conflict for real world combat testing?). Russian humanitarian convoys have been regularly used to resupply ammunition, fuel and some food. There has been a steady replacement of the Russian mercenaries since August, when the Russian military deemed them to have failed and they launched their direct invasion into Ukrainian territory. This purge has escalated over the last couple of weeks in the Luhansk region, with Russian mercenaries either being killed or returning to Russia. The Russian mercenaries have proven to be very unreliable, difficult for the Kremlin to control and to be overly familiar with the bottle! Ukraine has also been replacing August - September losses with repaired and modernised light and heavy vehicles and armour and will continue to call up and train troops as part of the expansion of their army.

Russia are now escalating their attacks on Ukrainian territory with over 50 major incidents yesterday using mainly heavy artillery and Grad rockets deep into Ukrainian territory, where Ukrainian troop concentrations are based. The question now is will Russia try to steal more Ukrainian territory bit by bit and try to stay under the radar of Western sanctions and US supplying defensive weapons to Ukraine or will it be a much higher level campaign and what are their objectives? This article explains the objectives much better than I can and for those interested is worth reading:

http://conflictreport.info/2015/01/09/making-sense-of-the-latest-russian-offensives-in-eastern-ukraine/

MH17:

This has gone quiet, where many are now waiting for the official Netherlands report or has it?

No investigative journalists have been making in depth investigations into circumstantial evidence and this performs an important function of evidence collection in a very difficult active military area. This will hopefully help the official investigation. There are now several websites in the world dedicated to detailed forensic investigation of war crimes including Bellingcat in the UK.

One such investigation on the weapon that destroyed MH17 has unearthed more evidence and I also know that material evidence has been found and is being analysed from the most likely BUK launch site which will hopefully confirm this.

This wide ranging report that has recently come to my attention:

https://mh17.correctiv.org/english/

And this is the Bellingcat 35 page report on the movement of the BUK in Russia and on Ukrainian territory mentioned in the above report:

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2014/11/08/origin-of-the-separatists-buk-a-bellingcat-investigation/

Of the Russian propaganda scoops to show they didn't do it, all I can say is they need to work harder on making them fit known facts, like the service ceiling of an SU-25 and the damage a small air-to-air missile can inflict and improve their photoshop skills as their faked pictures are very badly put together.
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hawke113a

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1 on: 10 January 2015, 21:11:19 »

jesus...how long did it take you to type that out
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Varche

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2 on: 10 January 2015, 21:36:43 »

That is very interesting reading.

What we basically have is a war being carried out and yet no one(apart from the people being killed) is that interested. The news channels prefer to have News of a fatal shooting in Oklahoma (Paris notwithstanding). It smacks of the elephant in the room.

Sure the West is carrying out sanctions and make no mistake they are tough sanctions but nothing is giving.

So my question is how do you think it will end? Peace and a new North South border just to the right of Kiev? Putin resigns and new leader gets sanctions lifted in return from complete withdrawal? NATO sends in men actually on the ground? It just rumbles on for years and years with similar action in other former Russian states?  :-\
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The Sheriff

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3 on: 10 January 2015, 21:43:00 »

No one knows how it ends because that is down to Putin and he isnt saying. As I said when this conflict started, the west hasn't got the military, the money or the suicide wish to do anything about it.
People need to realise that the world is changing fast. Gone are the days when there were meetings to arrange meetings and the world just moved along nicely. Globalism was/is no more than a fleeting episode and it won't be long before we all start drawing back inside our own borders again.
Hollande, last week, stated that he thought sanctions against Russia had gone far enough. France is skint, you see.......
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4 on: 10 January 2015, 22:21:06 »


Hollande, last week, stated that he thought sanctions against Russia had gone far enough. France is skint, you see.......

Yep, they've got two spanking new helicopter carriers sat rusting, that they can't sell to the intended customer and that customer wants his deposit back!  ::)
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The Sheriff

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5 on: 10 January 2015, 22:33:25 »


Hollande, last week, stated that he thought sanctions against Russia had gone far enough. France is skint, you see.......

Yep, they've got two spanking new helicopter carriers sat rusting, that they can't sell to the intended customer and that customer wants his deposit back!  ::)
I can't remember a time, apart from maybe the Cuban crisis, when the world was in such a dangerous state. But even the Cuban crisis was just one, short-lived, bum-clenching episode. This mess we are in has many different guises, each one them having the capacity to escalate out of hand.
Ukraine, ISIS, Israel and Gaza, Iran, Africa (both Muslim extremism and Ebola), Syria......etc.

Closer to home, immigration, the NHS, the economy........

Not trying to make it look worse than it is............that would be almost impossible.... :)
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Rods2

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #6 on: 11 January 2015, 11:51:28 »

By far the most dangerous of the current conflicts is Ukraine as Russia is nuclear armed and has / is going through a major modernization program. Their latest submarines are much quieter and much more difficult to detect, hence the new US blimp based cruise missile detection system, where the new generation of medium sized Russian submarines can carry nuclear tipped cruise missiles. Putin and the Russian leadership are convinced they can win a nuclear exchange, due to the Moscow ABM system, full population trained and practiced civil defences and being a very large country with mostly low population densities outside of ABM defended Moscow and a few other key cities, making destroying all of Russia more difficult than the USA and Western Europe. All of the other conflicts with IS, Israel / Palestine, Syria and Ebola (proven vaccines and medicines can be made available quite quickly) are easily containable depending upon how ruthless the West wants to be.

What do I think will happen in Ukraine. I can see three possible scenarios: The least likely at present is Russia reaching a face saving agreement with Ukraine, where Ukraine agree not to join NATO or the EU, the Donbass becomes an independent federalized area that has final say (Putin say) on all Ukrainian major political decisions and recognition of Russia's annexation of Crimea. These terms would be a red rag to a bull to many military units in Ukraine that have spilled much blood over defending Ukraine, with their democracy being replaced by a right-wing military dictatorship if this was agreed. So from both sides it is unlikely and Russia has an additional difficulty where nobody believes what they say or that they will make the slightest effort to stick to any agreement. Russia may have to change its stance during 2015/16 where it is going need access to Western capital markets.

The most likely one in the short term, that may well run into the very long term, is a smouldering conflict, which may include Russia attempting to grab more territory a bit at a time to try and stay under the radar of any increase in sanctions and the US supplying defensive weapons. Each time Russia doesn't like something Ukraine is doing, they will turn up the heat in the Donbass conflict to show their disapproval. For this reason I can't see it becoming a frozen conflict. This will blight the lives of millions of people in East Ukraine with the Donbass stagnant as a semi-post conflict derelict mess, where Russia is trying to push the future rebuilding of the region into a Ukraine / Western problem and on the Ukrainian side of the border, heavy border fortifications and being on the receiving end of regular Grad and artillery attacks. At the moment both sides are hoping that economics are going to be a deciding factor. Ukraine is near to defaulting on its sovereign debts and has almost run out of foreign currency reserves and is going to need Western support, Putin is hoping this won't be forthcoming in sufficient quantities. The other side of the coin is Russia's economic problems where they are not far behind Ukraine and will probably default in the next 9 to 18 months if their economy does not improve with higher oil prices (unlikely), reduced Western sanctions (more likely if war kept low key enough) and no further major collapse of the ruble against the dollar (USD will carry on strengthening in 2015, against virtually all currencies on the back of cheap energy prices and a growing economy, and maybe Fed interest rate rises and I can only see the ruble going in one direction, south). By default this conflict would stop Ukraine joining NATO and probable the EU until dispute is resolved, achieving two of Putin's aims.

The third scenario is Russia going all in and starting a general war in Ukraine and annexing substantially more territory. The West's pathetic weak response so far means this can't be ruled out as Putin's calculation is that the West will do little again and Russia has the second strongest conventional forces after the US. This would involve annexing 50% or so of Ukrainian territory to create a new Putin owned country Novorossya. The third option will probably be the fastest route to Putin's demise as it will become another Russian Afghanistan.

STMO is correct, all we can do is guess and surmise as it will be Putin's call and he has probably not made his mind up yet. Putin tends to be quite impulsive (by accounts quick tempered bully, with some instant bad revenge style decisions) and think cunning short term tactics and advantage, rather than deep thought long term strategies, which is why things are going very badly for him and will get much worse long term. His blundering in East Ukraine means that the Ukrainian people now have a purpose, other than stopping Putin and that is planting the country firmly in the West with Russia isolated as much as possible. There is a citizen inspired boycott of Russian goods and services and Russia has stopped most Ukrainian exports to Russia, but Ukraine's exports to EU countries is growing rapidly as part of the realignment. The West's carrot (loans to keep them solvent) and stick (no loans and new Euromaiden) means that key people from abroad have been brought in as ministers to help modernise their totally corrupt bureaucracy and since independence there is a real reform mood from the Government, which will go under route and branch reform. They have brought in a Lustration law which virtually all civil servants and the judiciary will have to pass over the next two years to keep their jobs.
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Rods2

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #7 on: 11 January 2015, 12:06:46 »



 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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