Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JamesV6CDX]

I have just bought an early 2004 (53 reg) Fiesta 1.6 Ghia from a lady at work, (who has had it from new) in what appears to be very nice condition. Purchased cheap, because over the last few months it's had a starting issue, she keeps popping kids out ( ) and doesn't want to risk the reliability, so has bought brand new again.

Anyhow. I refuse to believe there is anything seriously wrong with it. It FLIES and drives a treat, a real pleasure to drive. It has the Duratec engine which has bags of "go"!

I've worked out the issue is a "hot start" problem. When you start the car from cold, it almost catches, then doesn't. but the next time you turn the key, it's off - no repeated cranking.

The car will then run all day long without missing a beat. But when you turn it off, having got up to temperature, it WILL NOT start - it just cranks over and over.

If you leave her to cool right down, or even leave for a couple of hours, then it will again start almost straight away.

Any ideas on what this fault could be?

I have read the codes.

They were

P0420 - Catalyst Efficiency below threshold. (I think this is a genuinely tired cat, as there is no pre-cat to my knowledge).
P060C - Internal Control Module Main Processor Performance (??)

The car never cuts out whilst running. Plugs were a good colour when I Changed them for her a couple of months ago)

I am trying to do a methodical diagnosis rather than play "parts darts" in the hope of fixing it!

I've been looking at Live Data (I've paid for some ODB2 software and ELM327) and I can see that the coolant temperature sensor to the ECU appears to be acting normally - 12 degrees from cold, 80+ when hot, as expected. (The CTS was one of my suspects)

I've considered crank and cam sensors but have no way to prove or disprove them?

I've heard other owners having coil pack issues, but surely it'd give some signs of trouble when running, not just cause a hot start issue?

I've read a lot online about the P060C code meaning the "ECU has failed". Really? I thought ECU failures were almost unheard of - admittedly though I'm not familiar with Fords? Do Ford ECU's fail often?

I would have thought much more likely it's an unexpected value, or bad connection etc causing this code, there can't be much wrong with the ECU given how damn well it drives once started, and the fact it starts from cold each time? It doesn't add up that the ECU could be to blame here?

On that note, I have checked battery voltage. With a multimeter, it's 12.3 volts at the battery, which increases once engine started. At the ECU, on live data, it only see's 11.3 volts with the ignition on, and car not running. So I wonder if the drop in power between the battery, and the ECU reading it, could be part of the problem.

I can't see any values for MAF readings... I haven't yet removed the great big cover hiding everything under the engine, but I'm led to believe this car doesn't have a MAF??

If I'm honest I don't know what's causing this, but I'd be really grateful for some direction or ideas, please

Thanks OOF

[JamesV6CDX]

I should add. Sometimes when cranking (When it's refusing to start when it's hot) The dash flashes "EAC FAIL"

EAC is the electronic throttle control - the DBW system. EAC Fail is a well documented fault on the fiesta - and fords in general, BUT this usually involves limp mode / failures when DRIVING - of which there are none on this fiesta... So I wonder if the "EAC FAIL" when cranking is a red herring, or it's getting confused thinking the throttle system isn't working because the engine should be running?

[mka306]

What about the throttle pedal switch, I know the fiesta I had would have issues with the throttle and clutch peddles breaking switches and cables???

[Lazydocker]

Could be a fuse box issue... AFAIK all fords are still prone to it. The drop in voltage to the ecu can't be helping. I think you need to go back to basics... Check all connections and grounds.

Sounds to me like it is likely losing the connection somewhere between the ecu and x component (possibly TPS) for some reason, possibly low voltage. As a thought... See what happens if you try a different battery/jump leads when suffering the hot start issue. Also check the temperature of the battery cables when it's been running a good while.

But I'm a bit out of touch so perhaps someone else will know better!!

[Bigron]

Hi James.
That voltage drop at the ECU could be significant. Might I suggest that as a quick check that you link the ECU as directly as possible to the battery with a jumper wire and see if anything improves?
I have no accurate information regarding ECU current consumption, but not so great as to cause a 1V drop across an interconnect, surely? Therefore perhaps a high resistance join/terminal along the way?

Ron.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Seen a fair few ECU failures on Fords, sometimes they can be brought round by re-programming, other times not. They use a Siemens Simtec variant from memory.

The usual suspects do repairs on them

[JamesV6CDX]

Seen a fair few ECU failures on Fords, sometimes they can be brought round by re-programming, other times not. They use a Siemens Simtec variant from memory.

The usual suspects do repairs on them

Failed to start this morning, cranked but wouldn't go, oddness from dash lights.

Jump leads from the DTi, fired on the button.

I'm suspecting battery trouble!

[Gaffers]

A knackered battery, being drained by the starter, would defo cause some wierd and intermittent results in the ECU

[JamesV6CDX]

140 mile run earlier. Went like stink.

Came home, tried to start from red hot. Cranked but wouldn't fire.

Hooked up to the omega. Started without so much as a cough!! Am seriously wondering about the battery!

With the jump leads attached, it doesn't log that odd code either

[Lazydocker]

140 mile run earlier. Went like stink.

Came home, tried to start from red hot. Cranked but wouldn't fire.

Hooked up to the omega. Started without so much as a cough!! Am seriously wondering about the battery!

With the jump leads attached, it doesn't log that odd code either

Ahem

Could be a fuse box issue... AFAIK all fords are still prone to it. The drop in voltage to the ecu can't be helping. I think you need to go back to basics... Check all connections and grounds.

Sounds to me like it is likely losing the connection somewhere between the ecu and x component (possibly TPS) for some reason, possibly low voltage. As a thought... See what happens if you try a different battery/jump leads when suffering the hot start issue. Also check the temperature of the battery cables when it's been running a good while.

But I'm a bit out of touch so perhaps someone else will know better!!

You need to check the connections and try a good battery then

[JamesV6CDX]

140 mile run earlier. Went like stink.

Came home, tried to start from red hot. Cranked but wouldn't fire.

Hooked up to the omega. Started without so much as a cough!! Am seriously wondering about the battery!

With the jump leads attached, it doesn't log that odd code either

Ahem

Could be a fuse box issue... AFAIK all fords are still prone to it. The drop in voltage to the ecu can't be helping. I think you need to go back to basics... Check all connections and grounds.

Sounds to me like it is likely losing the connection somewhere between the ecu and x component (possibly TPS) for some reason, possibly low voltage. As a thought... See what happens if you try a different battery/jump leads when suffering the hot start issue. Also check the temperature of the battery cables when it's been running a good while.

But I'm a bit out of touch so perhaps someone else will know better!!

You need to check the connections and try a good battery then

If that really cures it, I call that winning!!

[Lazydocker]

140 mile run earlier. Went like stink.

Came home, tried to start from red hot. Cranked but wouldn't fire.

Hooked up to the omega. Started without so much as a cough!! Am seriously wondering about the battery!

With the jump leads attached, it doesn't log that odd code either

Ahem

Could be a fuse box issue... AFAIK all fords are still prone to it. The drop in voltage to the ecu can't be helping. I think you need to go back to basics... Check all connections and grounds.

Sounds to me like it is likely losing the connection somewhere between the ecu and x component (possibly TPS) for some reason, possibly low voltage. As a thought... See what happens if you try a different battery/jump leads when suffering the hot start issue. Also check the temperature of the battery cables when it's been running a good while.

But I'm a bit out of touch so perhaps someone else will know better!!

You need to check the connections and try a good battery then

If that really cures it, I call that winning!!

You need to get to the bottom of why a good battery (apparently) is not providing sufficient power though

[JamesV6CDX]

140 mile run earlier. Went like stink.

Came home, tried to start from red hot. Cranked but wouldn't fire.

Hooked up to the omega. Started without so much as a cough!! Am seriously wondering about the battery!

With the jump leads attached, it doesn't log that odd code either

Ahem

Could be a fuse box issue... AFAIK all fords are still prone to it. The drop in voltage to the ecu can't be helping. I think you need to go back to basics... Check all connections and grounds.

Sounds to me like it is likely losing the connection somewhere between the ecu and x component (possibly TPS) for some reason, possibly low voltage. As a thought... See what happens if you try a different battery/jump leads when suffering the hot start issue. Also check the temperature of the battery cables when it's been running a good while.

But I'm a bit out of touch so perhaps someone else will know better!!

You need to check the connections and try a good battery then

If that really cures it, I call that winning!!

You need to get to the bottom of why a good battery (apparently) is not providing sufficient power though

The battery on the car is years old.. I think it might just be tired out?

[Lazydocker]

The battery on the car is years old.. I think it might just be tired out?

Do you have access to a proper battery tester?

[JamesV6CDX]

The battery on the car is years old.. I think it might just be tired out?

Do you have access to a proper battery tester?

Sadly not