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[Varche]

Serious question though. There must have been complicity at various points in the organisation through towards the top. The head man has resigned. Fair enough but from past experience he will quickly pick up a job elsewhere. I also understand he is in line for £32 million of payments from VW?!

Is it reasonable to expect those responsible to actually go to prison?

[zirk]

Dare say if some Prosecutor could make a 'Conspiracy to Fraud' Charge stick then someone could.

[05omegav6]

Have voted, but will probably affect one or two people from each organisation, rather than a single person

Not sure Bosch are actually culpable, as they were probably writing the software to order rather than off their own backs. Presumably VW had a design brief which Bosch worked to

Either way, if Bosch made VW aware, then it is down to VW to use the software or not...

Say Stemo was finding it difficult to get to the shops during the morning rush hour and came to me for help. Lets sasy I fitted blue lights to his bogey green Astra, but left the fuse out and the positive connection off the battery, with the caveat that using the lights on ANY public road was utterly illegal and at his own risk but might get him to the shops quicker, then if he decided to fit a fuse and connect to the battery and drive to Asda and back with the lights on that would be entirely his own doing...

[Sir Tigger KC]

Just because it was done to order dosn't mean Bosch (or any other supplier) are innocent. They would have known full well what the software was for and that the purpose was to circumvent the law.

If you were driving someone to the airport and the client told you to drive at 100mph, you wouldn't be able to to get out of a speeding ticket on that basis. 

[Nick W]

Fall guy, although there will be more than one.

VW is too big a part of the German economy for the German government to penalise them too much. Especially for a 'crime' committed in America.

[zirk]

Would have thought on the Bosch front, Bosch would have supplied the Hardware and VW would have programmed to suit In House.

[05omegav6]

Just because it was done to order dosn't mean Bosch (or any other supplier) are innocent. They would have known full well what the software was for and that the purpose was to circumvent the law.

If you were driving someone to the airport and the client told you to drive at 100mph, you wouldn't be able to to get out of a speeding ticket on that basis. 

If they held a gun to my head, that might be mitigation enough... but for accuracy, if the client (VW) were to drive my (Bosch) car (software) at 100mph (dubious emissions test) then the client would be fully accountable for their actions... no way could I be accountable for the fact that my car is capable of exceeding the speed limit if a n other person drives it above that limit

[Varche]

One thing that did occur to me was if VW sales plummet and outlets, supply chain, factory etc have to lay staff off as a result, could the sacked people bring a class action against the VW company?

Has it had a notable effect on sales?

I suspect it will be the dept head of the software section (not the actual programmers who were just following orders). Then a technical head further up responsible for US arm, then a director. Like Nick says VW is too big a part of the German economy for it to suffer too much. Plus at the end of the day people honestly aren't that bothered about emissions- unless they fail an MOT! How many mpg and how fast it goes and has it got Bluetooth are i suspect top of the list.

[Rods2]

Everybody will point the finger at everybody else and they will all get away with it. I'm sure if they need any collective denial training that many consultants in the financial or many other professional services industries will be happy to coach them for the right fee.

It is very reassuring for US and European VW owners that the EPA and EU have both approved their initial fix:



















































 

[STEMO]

People won't stop buying VW's, esp golfs, they are to the upwardly mobile what iPads are to fan boys. It wouldn't stop me. They are still one of the most desirable marques.
As for the legalities of it, I the ze Germans themselves are more put out than foreign governments, although as Rods has already said, the yanks do love an overseas cash cow.

[Varche]

Well you say that but here is just one scenario.

In Spain they had a successful (from the governments point of view) scrappage scheme/buy a new low emissions car. they (we tax payers) gave each buyer 2000 euros if new car was less than 120gm CO2 (I think that was the figure). So if you bought a VW and it turns out to be higher can Spain claim those 2000;s back off VW? Also the tax bands for VWs is too low now? Who if anyone pays that back?

I agree with you about it won't stop people buying VW cars.

I read elsewhere that 86% of all cars on the road in Spain are diesel. The vast majority of the remainder are manuals.

[Gaffers]

Well you say that but here is just one scenario.

In Spain they had a successful (from the governments point of view) scrappage scheme/buy a new low emissions car. they (we tax payers) gave each buyer 2000 euros if new car was less than 120gm CO2 (I think that was the figure). So if you bought a VW and it turns out to be higher can Spain claim those 2000;s back off VW? Also the tax bands for VWs is too low now? Who if anyone pays that back?

I agree with you about it won't stop people buying VW cars.

I read elsewhere that 86% of all cars on the road in Spain are diesel. The vast majority of the remainder are manuels.

fixed

[Varche]

 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Ole! 

[Kevin Wood]

I have no doubt that a scapegoat code monkey somewhere will be found and the board will claim that, despite them and their shareholders being the main parties to benefit from the "hack", and despite them ranking among some of the most successful executives in business, with remuneration packages to match, this was achieved whilst oblivious to what those whom they were managing were up to. 

They'll then reluctantly do a "falling on their sword" facade, but that'll backfire when they remember that they are "bound by their contracts" to accept a huge payout against their will.

The code monkey will then go back to his desk to dig up the "This really isn't a good idea" mail that he sent to his manager years ago, only to find that his account no longer exists.