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[flyer 0712]

stemo....you are so right....who in their right minds made up that 50k structure....as you say .one person earning over 50k looses it but your neighbours who live together earning 49k each per year still can claim it...madness...

[Sir Tigger KC]

I expect Lord Opti needs his Winter Fuel Allowance to warm up his Welsh castle. 

Glad of the double rate that he's eligible for as well I should think! 

[STEMO]

There are always going to be anomalies. The vast majority of pensioners deserve everything they can get, and I'm pretty sure that there's aren't that many 'rich' pensioners although, of course, rich is subjective.
Let's take child benefit. We lost ours cause wifey earns more than 50K, but a couple, both earning 40K were allowed to keep theirs.

I am in agreement with Nitro, if you've earned it, claim it.

Probably not in Wakefield or Barnsley but spread around the country the numbers are significant.

As I say, subjective, and not very many when taken as a percentage I'll wager.

[Entwood]

Just to correct a common misunderstanding about why the State Pension is deemed a "benefit" and not a "true" pension ...

If you pay into a pension fund, whether that is at work or a private pension, that fund is invested on your behalf and the "pot" grows. When you draw your pension you draw from that pot. ....the bigger the pot the more you get.... quite a simple concept.

The State Pension does NOT work that way .. there is no "pot" of invested money .. all your National Insurance and Income Tax contributions over the years have all been spent .. every year .. especially as successive governments have run a budget deficit.

All State Pension payments/social security costs/pension credits etc etc .. in fact EVERY SINGLE PENNY THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS comes from this years taxes and borrowings.

Thus the size of the State Pension and any increases are not linked to the size or profitability of the non-existent pot .. but are decreed by Government, and paid for by present taxpayers, so it cannot, correctly, be called a pension. It is paid to pensioners because they "benefit" from the fact that the present day work force are paying taxes, without them there would be no government income, and that is half the problem .. with more and more elderly folk claiming the state pension, there are simply not enough folk in work to cover the cost. It was once quoted (way back in 1983 when I did my Commerce course) that it then took 9 workers to pay for 1 pensioner ... I've no idea what the required ratio is now.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I don't believe any benefits should be universal. The welfare state was intended for those in genuine need & hardship. Successive governments have perverted it into a means of social engineering, pseudo Marxist redistribution of wealth, and most of all, a means of buying votes with other peoples money.
All benefits should be means tested and go to those who are in need of food, shelter & warmth. Then people who earn could have a chance of actually keeping more than half of their own earnings.
Corbyns long time economic adviser (goes by the name of Murphy I think) believes that employers shouldn't pay wages to employees, but should pay it all to the state. Then the state should redistribute it as it deems fit.
At least hes honest I suppose. Gordon Brown obviously believed the same thing and was well on the way to taking us there during his time of wrecking the British economy.
If we can break way from the sense of entitlement (and little sense of responsibility) which has infested this country, we might be able to have a prosperous country to be proud of again.

[STEMO]

Means testing costs money...a lot of it. That was the excuse used over child benefit.

[Varche]

You could always ask people who don't need the benefit(s) they receive to give them back. Pete Waterman tried to do that but amazingly there isn't a mechanism.

[flyer 0712]

So have a few of the richer people tried to give it back but there is no provision for that....maybe means tested would be beneficial.

[STEMO]

So have a few of the richer people tried to give it back but there is no provision for that....maybe means tested would be beneficial.

Means testing also opens another HUGE can of worms:

If I work hard all my life and save a nice few bob for my retirement, I'll be comfortable in my old age.

No, you won't because we're going to means test the old age pension and, if you've got a few bob, you won't get it.

So I'd be better saving nowt and getting all the benefits?

Errrr......yeah

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Or alternatively............."I didnt work that hard, I spent what I earned and have no savings, what happens now ?"

" As we are a civilised country, we will provide you with the following.
1. Basic accommodation
2 £25 vouchers per week for Tesco Asda etc.
3. £100 p.a. vouchers for clothes at Tesco Asda etc.
4. £15 per week vouchers for energy with the cheapest provider.....etc. "
Problem sorted. Just indefinitely intern all the do gooder, lefty whingers when they start whining and wringing their hands. Job done. 

[STEMO]

Or alternatively............."I didnt work that hard, I spent what I earned and have no savings, what happens now ?"

" As we are a civilised country, we will provide you with the following.
1. Basic accommodation
2 £25 vouchers per week for Tesco Asda etc.
3. £100 p.a. vouchers for clothes at Tesco Asda etc.
4. £15 per week vouchers for energy with the cheapest provider.....etc. "
Problem sorted. Just indefinitely intern all the do gooder, lefty whingers when they start whining and wringing their hands. Job done. 

Yeah.......big fat chance.