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[Bojan]

Hi guys.

I have an idea, and I would appreciate some feedback on it.

For last few weeks I'm interested in a idea of a estate omega that would be a bit more 'off-road' capable.
Not capable as a real 4x4 car, but something like most modern SUV.
It would be (I hope) able to coupe with loose terrain (deep gravel, mud) and climb a steeper upcline, but would keep the comfort, speed and economy (compared to 4x4s like frontera) of a normal car.
I want a vehicle that I can sit in, drive 1000km on a motorway in one piece (this is where the omega is good at), than take it on a unpaved road (forrest or rocky road) without a fear of getting stuck, camp for several days and then go back.

The idea is following:
- raise the car about 3cm (front: modify shocks by moving the hub plate, rear: distance plates)
- skid plate / sump guard (1-2mm steel plate, with steel frame)
- front lower bumper guard (steel tube, bent into the shape of the bumper bottom shape)
- metal side cover (instead plastic one that runnes below both doors) - probably more expanded towards outside, for visual effect
- mud flaps (front custom made, as side cover woudl have different shape)
- banded steel 15" rims (with rears having 20mm less ET than front ones -> rear fenders have much more widht than front ones, and I want to 'fill' this)
- some 'fatter' terrain tyres (like pirrelly scorpion) -> I'm thinking 205/75 R15
- safari roof rack, with a pair of fog/rally lights
- diff locker/LSD (or, as this both are very hard to find, just weld the diff)

Ideally, I would use PFL as they are dead cheap.
Engine, X20XEV -> they are IME quite reliable and very easy to maintain and to work on, and on other hand, have sufficient power.

Can you give me some thoughts on this idea?
Also, please do point out if I'm missing something.

Generally, something like this:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Henrik_Y/Bilen/1211032.jpg

Thank!
Bojan

[STEMO]

Sounds ok, but......

You would have to stiffen and strengthen the suspension and that would make it a totally different car on the motorway, and four wheel drive is the only way to ensure you don't get stuck.
Manufacturers have been trying to get this balance right for years, it's always a compromise.

[Bojan]

Wouldn't really use it for real hardcore offroading -> not oging trough deep holes/diches, or larger obstacles.
So I hope stock suspension would be OK.
Just raised for more ground clerance.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Look up the Holden Adventra.

Without wanting to provoke another debate about whether or not Holden's version of the Omega platform is, or isn't the 'same car' if nothing else this may provide you with lots of inspiration. I take it you're looking for something like a Subaru Forester/Legacy-esque type of thing?

Ferguson Formula (of Jensen Interceptor FF fame) actually did a few 4x4 conversions of the Senator / Monza.

I actually rather like the idea.

Custom springs can be made any size/length you want, so you could go to one of the excellent specialist companies in the uk, give them an Omega spring, and say 'that spring rate/thickness, but raised 30mm, please' and they'll do it. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

I kinda like the idea and RWD's can be surprisingly capable off road in the right hands. 

Keep us posted! 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

ooh, another thought... how possible would it be to install height adjustable gas shocks front and rear? The system already existed in the Senator, but the rears of Omega Elites was, of course height adjustable.

Given some cars have separate front shocks, as opposed to the camber-ruining affair on Omegas (by which I mean to replace the front dampers you need to completely disassemble the suspension, surely the potential for installing a variation of the rear shock absorbers - but on front and rear axles -  is there? Maybe chop up an Omega front damper, remove the innards, and fit a rear adjustable rear damper inside? Yes, the hurdles of 'oooh, the damper rate will be wrong... it'll handle like a dog...not wortht he hassle' etc wil rear their heads, however, within the premise of the brief - a soft-roader Omega, these hurdles will always be there, and surely not-insurmountable?

There's plenty of other cars which feature air suspension, too, (Audis? Mercs?) should a system need to be analysed for inspiration or indeed parts.

[Andy B]

ooh, another thought... how possible would it be to install height adjustable gas shocks front and rear? The system already existed in the Senator,  ....

It was 'ride control' on the Senator ie variable damping ..... not ride height 

My Merc uses air bags instead of coil springs so I can vary the height & damping 

[Bojan]

DBG, thanks for the tip on adventra. I know about it, it gave me the whole idea, and I use it as an 'inspiration', especially for visual changes. Ideally, I would put bumpers, wheel arch trim and side cover trim from adventra, but they are really not available in Europe (there is that blue omega estate from malaysia/tailand or similar with adventra 'kit' here on OOF).

Visually, I would like to make it to look more like adventra, or subaru outback, volvo XC70, alfa crosswagon... -> therefore extended side covers, mudflaps, small bullbar.
Also, if I find a suitable (flexible) material - wheel arch cladding.

As for lifting it - yes, new, cusom springs are a 'backup' option. I woudl try my way firs, as it would cost me anything (I can do metalwork and welding).

Any thoughts on the wheels?

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I like your thoughts with sticking to such as 15s. with a nice, tall-section tyres, you'd have plenty of choice. Personally like to see steelies on off Landies etc, however if you look around that really doesn't happen any more. Maybe the old crossspokes on Carltons/Senators. (two types - splitrims and removable centre cap, respectively). Lots to choose from in 5 stud Vauxhall Alloy wheel parts catalogue.. That said, you'd perhaps want something that was readily available as a single big rock will dent/buckle your rim. So that may return us to the steelie route...I bet you'd be able to source them practically for free, and if you bend one.. boo hoo, bin it, grab a spare off the roof rack 


Also regarding arch liners/extensions, I'm sure there'll be something off a Audi Allroad or similar which will bold on and look the part. I know they're not exactly commonplace, but the Proton GTi had quite nice arch extensions, I always thought; get them in bare plastic and they would look good.

[Varche]

Even with an LSD or a welded diff , I do not think you would get adequate traction. There isn't any weight over the back end. I struggled here for a few years going off road for my work. You could only get away with it by planning your route. e.g. generally travel downhill, if you have to go uphill get a run at it, whenever you stop make sure you are facing downhill. That was with 225 width tyres. In wet conditions it was awful even with a load of heavy chain in the boot. raising the suspension might also badly compromise the handling. That is just a guess though

A welded diff would , I suspect, wear your tyres out on the highways(tarmac roads).

[Bojan]

Air suspension is a good idea generally. It's usually achieved with air bellows instead of coil springs. It would give adjustable ride height, which would be very nice.
However, I need to keep this on tight budget, so this wouldn't be an option.
Also, air bellows and off road don't go hand-in-hand – sharp objects can pierce the bellow, and dirt gets stuck between air-below and it's base plate, damaging it over the course of time.

Wheels – I like the carlton rims, or 1994-1996 MV6 rims, but I have an issue with this (as well with all other OEM omega wheels) -> the ET is usable for front, but at the rear, they are too much 'pulled in'.
I could use original omega 15“ rims (7x15, ET33) with 20-30mm spacers for back wheels – but I really don't like the long studs that are needed for this, especially for heavy duty use.
Other option is standard steel wheels (6,5x15, ET 33) – get them banded -> this way I can choose  width and ET.

Varche, how hard was the terrain you've had problems with?
Also, what type of tires did you have on it? As you say 225, I suppose standard 225/55/16.
I'm not trying to have a fully capable offroader. 

[Bojan]

Also, if anybody has links or images of something like this done, please do share.
I have searched the web in detail, but found only 2-3 similar modifications. And all of them were mechanical (raised, diff, off road tyres and similar), and I'm looking to see some visual changes if possible.

[Varche]

Not very hard terrain as it was also my only road car. various gradients, various surfaces, clay, mud, sand, rocky. I didn't have an LSD and haven't experienced one in an Omega. Tyres 225x55x16 pirelli 6000's I think. Narrower rims would be better as the tryes bite in rather than float on the surface.

Sump guard. I looked for an off the shelf but predictably there wasn't one. Should be easy enough to have one made. If you are handy with welding I would put skids on the exhaust boxes.

Wasn't there a Monroe? shock absorber that you could pump (using standard tyre pressure guage fitting) up to alter the ride height? Maybe only for the back.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I'll second that - there was a guy on here who had a pair of air-adjust dampers for the Carlton, and was inquiring whether it would be suitable for use on his Omega. Cav Mk IIs had the same setup, just inflate with a tyre pump (or a bike pump for that matter!) to the desired height. Nice idea, actually.


Also can definitely agree on the exhaust shields! As a madn who snapped an Omega exhaust in two over a speed bump, they're pretty low cars, really.

[T.m.f]

I have used my frontera alot off road from green laning to play sites,also helping out setting up several race for life events,i do use mine in 2wd about 80% of the time,you will notice you will lose traction quickly on grass ,you will need adequate ground clearance,30 mm extra wont do it,also a/t tyres depending on tread my come up alot bigger and may cause fowling of wheel arches. On mine i have a 3" suspension lift,run 265/70/16 road tyres and also 255/75/15 all terrains(these measure as 30" tyres)and i can still get stuck like everybody else,get yourself a cheap 4x4 to use instead.