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[05omegav6]

I almost fell asleep regularly at my SAC........

I found it riveting, it's completely changed the way I drive. 

You say that with an almost straight face

[Andy B]

I almost fell asleep regularly at my SAC........

I found it riveting, it's completely changed the way I drive. 

liar liar ... your pant are on fire 

[05omegav6]

Presented well, it does have some informative points, such as the braking curve... But that only serves as a reasoned argument for not tailgating/allowing a reasonable stopping gap proportionate to the speed being travelled/prevailing conditions.

Afterall, it's inappropriate speed, and the consequences thereof, which causes issues.

[Crazycarzowner]

As an ex BBC Top Gear presenter once said "Speed doesn't kill, its the rather abrupt stops that do"   

[Kevin Wood]

Afterall, it's inappropriate speed, and the consequences thereof, which causes issues.

Not to mention entirely appropriate speed and everything else, but not paying the remotest bit of attention to anything outside the perimeter of your vehicle.

[05omegav6]

Afterall, it's inappropriate speed, and the consequences thereof, which causes issues.

Not to mention entirely appropriate speed and everything else, but not paying the remotest bit of attention to anything outside the perimeter of your vehicle.

Hence three ton Audis doing the school run and these courses...

All very self perpetuating

[TheBoy]

but not paying the remotest bit of attention to anything outside the perimeter of your vehicle.

I frequently wonder, and often discuss down the pub, if its partly/mostly due to the fact that people now don't have to go through the motorbike phase, like my generation and older.  We simply couldn't go out and get a car on credit, or spread insurance payments over the year, so were stuck with the cheap option - bikes.

I was lucky in amongst most of my friends (ignoring a couple of the rich kids), I was able to get a car when I was 20.


Riding a motorbike, even little 125s, really does make you very aware of your surroundings and predict possibilities.  Having mostly continued to ride until nearly 3yrs ago, it is very apparent that many drivers are utterly unaware of outside their tin cans.

[Nick W]

but not paying the remotest bit of attention to anything outside the perimeter of your vehicle.

I frequently wonder, and often discuss down the pub, if its partly/mostly due to the fact that people now don't have to go through the motorbike phase, like my generation and older.  We simply couldn't go out and get a car on credit, or spread insurance payments over the year, so were stuck with the cheap option - bikes.

I was lucky in amongst most of my friends (ignoring a couple of the rich kids), I was able to get a car when I was 20.


Riding a motorbike, even little 125s, really does make you very aware of your surroundings and predict possibilities.  Having mostly continued to ride until nearly 3yrs ago, it is very apparent that many drivers are utterly unaware of outside their tin cans.

I'm too much of a wuss for motorbikes, and my 125 blew up a fortnight before I passed my driving test, but the two years I did on two wheels are still useful for reading road surfaces and braking effectively.


First cars have changed too. The crap we drove(1300 Escorts were common) was slow and had low limits, but those matched their drivers! As you hooned about, you learnt what those limits were and what to do when you exceeded them. This meant you weren't much more of a liability as you moved through more powerful cars.


Now, even a 15 yearold 1400 Corsa has more grip than power, so learning what goes wrong tends to be at much higher speeds if it happens at all. Then you progress to something with twice the power and huge tyres with loads of grip that suddenly have none. Or you get a RWD with all of that and totally different handling characteristics. I recovered lots of backwards into the scenery 325s where the drivers couldn't understand what happened. We can: suddenly lifting off in a twitchy RWD car at speed will make it try to spin, and you'll probably run out of road before it stops.

[Kevin Wood]

but not paying the remotest bit of attention to anything outside the perimeter of your vehicle.

I frequently wonder, and often discuss down the pub, if its partly/mostly due to the fact that people now don't have to go through the motorbike phase, like my generation and older.  We simply couldn't go out and get a car on credit, or spread insurance payments over the year, so were stuck with the cheap option - bikes.

I was lucky in amongst most of my friends (ignoring a couple of the rich kids), I was able to get a car when I was 20.


Riding a motorbike, even little 125s, really does make you very aware of your surroundings and predict possibilities.  Having mostly continued to ride until nearly 3yrs ago, it is very apparent that many drivers are utterly unaware of outside their tin cans.

I'm too much of a wuss for motorbikes, and my 125 blew up a fortnight before I passed my driving test, but the two years I did on two wheels are still useful for reading road surfaces and braking effectively.


First cars have changed too. The crap we drove(1300 Escorts were common) was slow and had low limits, but those matched their drivers! As you hooned about, you learnt what those limits were and what to do when you exceeded them. This meant you weren't much more of a liability as you moved through more powerful cars.


Now, even a 15 yearold 1400 Corsa has more grip than power, so learning what goes wrong tends to be at much higher speeds if it happens at all. Then you progress to something with twice the power and huge tyres with loads of grip that suddenly have none. Or you get a RWD with all of that and totally different handling characteristics. I recovered lots of backwards into the scenery 325s where the drivers couldn't understand what happened. We can: suddenly lifting off in a twitchy RWD car at speed will make it try to spin, and you'll probably run out of road before it stops.

Yep, all agreed, not to mention that new cars are all over-assisted, over-"comfortable" and don't give an ounce of feedback until you see the road ahead through the side window. We have forgotten how to build a proper car.

.. and that's before we fill it with distractions.

[TheBoy]

First cars have changed too. The crap we drove(1300 Escorts were common) was slow and had low limits, but those matched their drivers! As you hooned about, you learnt what those limits were and what to do when you exceeded them. This meant you weren't much more of a liability as you moved through more powerful cars.

There is a lot to be said about slower cars, as I said on another thread. You can learn a lot, rather than the squirt - brake - turn - squirt of more powerful cars.

Again I was lucky, from the age of 18, being given a little yellow Morris Ital, £1m of liability bond, and told to "do your worst". Yes, it was a proper heap, but I learned an awful lot at reasonably safe speeds, had plenty of catastrophic tyre failures, and how a vehicle reacts when the engine falls out. Oh, and the fact that the steering is severely impacted when braking heavily for a corner, and watching your NSF wheel boucing off in front of you - I did crash that time

[Kevin Wood]

The steering is severely impacted by it being a Morris Ital, no matter how you drive it.

A pair of reigns would have been an improvement.

[Andy B]

....

A pair of reigns would have been an improvement.

or a pair of reins 

[Kevin Wood]

....

A pair of reigns would have been an improvement.

or a pair of reins 

Oh. They'd be a BIG improvement.

[aaronjb]

Remember kids, speed kills!

But eating a bowl of pasta is fine as long as you're only doing 50mph 

[TheBoy]

The steering is severely impacted by it being a Morris Ital, no matter how you drive it.

A pair of reigns would have been an improvement.

It wasn't really quick enough to worry about (when it had 4 wheels).  When it fell to bits one day (took it in as the bumper fell off, mechanic walked past, just caught the mirror, and that fell off), it was replaced by a Maestro.  I loved that one, much quicker, larger (so I could get the stuff in it), and handled better (and Maestros handle shite).  I had no real complaints about that one.  Sadly, due to the fuel costs, it was replaced with a brand new Escort diesel. Now that truly was utter shite. Top speed was 70mph, as 4th and 5th couldn't maintain speed, it was small, gutless, and like all Fords, didn't like corners. I think I wrote that one off 3 times (failed to make a corner at about 20mph, reversed into a lamppost, had a head-on), but as we didn't have insurance and had an internal set of mechanics, it was always bodged back together.

Oh, those helicon days