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[Doctor Gollum]

They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.

Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?

Hammer. Nail. Head.

Ford accelerated the situation by utterly ruining the Granada... I always maintain that the Omega is the car the Granada should have become... but even then I doubt it would have seen in the millennium

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Oh, and re: the 'Senator problem' indeed, the separate model was a brilliant idea, not forgetting the Senny, aside from sharing underpinnings and engines, also shared stuff like front doors, which many people can't believe, they are so artfully and skillfully styled, they appear much bigger on the road and totally different cars. Anyone who has seen the front end of a Senny grafted on a Carlton will know how close they are.

But clearly for the magic 'cost' reasons, they decided not to pursue a model up above the Carlton/Omega A. Presumably the marketing decision was to make the new Omega move up in the market place, where the Carlton had previously been that slightly bigger than a Cavalier, a bit Antique dealer/Farmer maybe, a slightly workhorse machine, with a bit of comfort. In 1978 when they launched the Carlton, no-one could have imagined just over ten years later there'd be GSi Carltons, super-luxurious ones with full leather, walnut & air-con and then even Lotus turbocharched ones. So perhaps the logical progression was to move the Omega up a notch, meaning that a proposed Senator replacement would itself have to be moved up a notch, meaning directly in the firing line of Merc S-class, which was something they weren't prepared to do/knew it would never wash with customers. (and anyone who said people would pay £40-50k for a Vauxhall would be proven wrong when the Lotus Carlton did not achieve the sales it was hoped to be - the Ferrari F40 outsold it, for instance!)

Of course that's not to say I don't adore the Senny - which I do - and wouldn't have loved to have seen a true replacement - which I would. Look at a Holden Statemsman if you want an idea what it would/could have looked like. 

[Nick W]

They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.

Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?

Most car owners don't care(if they even know) which end their car drives. Mass market manufacturers stopped making large RWD cars because they had stopped making small and medium sized RWD cars to share parts. The Omega was built on an ancient and obsolete platform that shared nothing with the rest of the range except its engines. Its replacement was always going to be based on a FWD platform, and the ever increasing size of model replacements meant the Insignia did just that. The facelift was a budget way of stretching out a tired looking range until that happened. The original Omega interior has dated really badly, whereas the only thing that a F/L dash is 'missing' to look up to date is a large screen.

[tunnie]

They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.

Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?

Most car owners don't care(if they even know) which end their car drives. Mass market manufacturers stopped making large RWD cars because they had stopped making small and medium sized RWD cars to share parts. The Omega was built on an ancient and obsolete platform that shared nothing with the rest of the range except its engines. Its replacement was always going to be based on a FWD platform, and the ever increasing size of model replacements meant the Insignia did just that. The facelift was a budget way of stretching out a tired looking range until that happened. The original Omega interior has dated really badly, whereas the only thing that a F/L dash is 'missing' to look up to date is a large screen.

Red Flag to a Bull, the interior of MFL or FL for TheBoy.

You can't diss the MFL, it's the pinnacle of Vauxhall's achievements. 

[tunnie]

Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?

Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.

[Doctor Gollum]

Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?

Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.

Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.

It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

In Europe the Carlton was known as the Omega A. The "new Omega" - B in Europe, PFL in the UK, was obviously the replacement for what we knew as the Carlton, and was never intended to replace the Senator.
After the Senator went out of production, GM Europe gave up trying to compete with the S class, 7 series etc. The Omega could be said to be aimed at the 5 series market, but never the 7 series.
Once the ancient platform had come to the end of its life, they gave up any pretensions whatsoever of having a flagship model and abandoned the prestige end of the market altogether.
Probably just as well as any replacement would either have been fwd,a stretched Vectra ?, or they would have bankrupt the company designing a new rwd platform from scratch.
A pity though as I have had a lot of pleasure owning and driving big Vauxhalls since I bought a Viceroy in 1987. 
I will always maintain that the Senator was undoubtedly the pinnacle of large Vauxhalls. I bought my pfl Omega immediately after scrapping my Senator, and it immediately felt like much less of a car in every respect. I knew I had taken quite a big step down as soon as I sat in it and drove it.

[tunnie]

Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?

Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.

Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.

It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well

Is there any need for that? 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Probably not, people say stuff to get reactions, both positive and negative for good and bad. Let's move on 

So... The ultimate irony, in all of this, is just as the Omega died, there was a massive performance Renaissance at Luton, the VXR branding was launched, the BTCC cars were winning year-on-year, and then they chose to import the Holden Monaro. And everyone loved it, and people were calling it the best handing Vauxhall in years. It was a Vauxhall Top Gear liked - and there's no higher standard than that. Now without provoking another OOF argument about how close the two cars are, they are the same 'platform', albeit a heavily modified form. And it's the same recipe, big lump up front, rear drive, Done. 

To anyone who was a fan of the Omega I cannot stress how much of a delight and bolt out of the blue it was to see those curvy doors resurface, and for everyone to be raving about it 

[tunnie]

Monaro's prices have held well recently too, RobseyMV6 had super charged one. Damn that thing was fast!

I'd still like to get one some day, as a toy,  instead of the bike.

[citroenguy]

Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?

Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.

Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.

It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well

FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s

[Doctor Gollum]

The Monaro was a strong seller globally The VE Commodore that replaced it sold well in both V6 and V8 forms in the US, yet we only got the VXR8

Why? Because physically the Insignia is identical in every dimension except width so the only way to viably sell such a car here would have been to import the Statesman/Caprice version... and as experience has oft shown, selling a modest badge at premium prices doesn't work in the european market place... regardless of how competent the car is.

Recall a very good Autocar group test from the early '90s... W140 S Class vs BMW 7 Series, Lexus LS400, Honda Legend, Rolls Royce Seraph? and Cadillac STS.

Only two were considered genuine luxury cars, the rest were mere pretenders iirc.

GM has always been halfarsed when it comes to the UK, and Europe as a whole...Vauxhall and Opel should have been formally rebranded a long time ago... then we might have had some interesting cars to choose from... Not that the Chevrolet Cavalier was any better than the European one

[Nick W]

It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well

The packaging improvements have been pissed away by modern styling and the sheer size of modern components.
RWD drivetrains were modular too as Ford proved: their small and medium sized cars commonly shared engine/gearbox/axle combinations like crossflows and English axles, then the medium and large cars had Pintos/V6s and Atlas axles. Simple partsbin engineering meant that a stock Pinto stuffed in an Escort made a niche car on the cheap, or a V6 Cortina.

[Doctor Gollum]

Same is still true, only now almost everything is fwd...

Key difference is that back in the '70s and '80s it didn't take much to make one car 'better' than the next one

[Kevin Wood]

FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s

Yes, in a small light car. Try to make a barge the size and weight of an Omega work with good comfort, performance and handling and it all falls apart unless you go RWD. If you can throw out some of the requirements, then maybe it'll work. Witness that Cadillac went FWD some time ago. Great if you want it to make a water bed seem responsive.

But, if you want to combine a generous size of car with a good amount of poke, comfortable ride and yet maintain pleasant handling and a decent level of grip, it has to be RWD. There are, however, enough drivers these days that won't notice the compromises you are making, that you can get away with it.