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[omega2018]

As people are by far the major source of CO2, would the Forum like to suggest people that we could terminate in order to save the Planet?   

Ron

'dr' gollum.  with extreme predjudice

[Doctor Gollum]

As people are by far the major source of CO2, would the Forum like to suggest people that we could terminate in order to save the Planet?   

Ron

'dr' gollum.  with extreme predjudice

Age before beauty

[Sir Tigger KC]

In that case it was an optical illusion as the only aircraft Thomson would have over that way would be a Dreamliner, and theirs are all near as damn it new

Maybe so, but not as fast as an A380 though! 

[Doctor Gollum]

Or not actually trying

A380 cruise speed is 907 km/h, B787 is 913 km/h...

On the off chance it was one of the B767s out for a walk, they cruise at 851 km/h... But ignoring the winglets on the B75/767, the basic wing design is 40 years old

[Rods2]

I thought modern jets used less fuel than average family cars, per passenger?

Per passenger per mile

The thing about air travel is that a lot of people can travel a long way in a short period of time so the fuel used per journey is significant even though the fuel used per passenger per mile looks good.

So, lets pretend I was a tree hugging do-gooder.

If I wanted to drive with Mrs TB down to the south of France, along with my holiday buddy Abbo and his missus, who would use their own sports car made of wood...   ...would I be kinder to the environment by flying as opposed to driving a 14yr old 3.2l Omega?


Not that I care, as I would always take the car, as everything about dealing with British airports is nothing more than a tedious waste of time, as everything, from carparks, check-in, security, boarding, refreshments is run and staffed by first class morons.  Which puts me in a bloody bad mood long before you even have to deal with being squashed and cooped up on a poxy plane for hours, with the little "darlings" behind kicking your seat constantly - and any attempt to punch them is met with distain by the parents who can't control them - and the fat idiot in front trying to recline his seat as far as it will go, so he can put his head on your lap.

Yeah, bloody brilliant start to any holiday.

Avoid the Chunnel like the plague, get a night ferry to France, a full English breakfast to get your early start off splendidly, drive the 700miles in circa 12 hours down to the south of France, have your car to visit wherever you want on the Med, and then cruise back home. If like I (6 times) and TB you have done it, then don't delay, get a life and exceptional holiday by doing so. The Camargue area takes a lot of beating.

[omega2018]

ignoring the winglets on the B75/767, the basic wing design is 40 years old

winglets were designed 40 years ago, a DC10 flew with winglets a year before the 767's first ever flight.

[Doctor Gollum]

ignoring the winglets on the B75/767, the basic wing design is 40 years old

winglets were designed 40 years ago, a DC10 flew with winglets a year before the 767's first ever flight.

Which part of "ignoring the winglets" wasn't clear?

If you really want to split hairs, you're thinking of the MD11, which too all intents and purposes is a stretched DC10-30.

Thompson have only fitted winglets to their 75/76 fleet in the last five or so years. The Dreamliner has a completely different profile to the 767 and no winglets. If I can be arsed over the next few days, I shall take some pictures just to prove a point...

Anyhow, back to the thread

[omega2018]

If you really want to split hairs, you're thinking of the MD11, which too all intents and purposes is a stretched DC10-30.

no, it was the DC10, as I said

N68048 Continental Air Lines McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10 - cn 47802 / 101
Airframe Details
Construction Number (MSN)    47802
Line Number    101
Aircraft Type    McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10
First Flight    24. Apr 1973
Age    29.0 Years
Production Site    Long Beach (LGB)
Airframe Status    Scrapped

[Mister Rog]

I thought modern jets used less fuel than average family cars, per passenger?

Per passenger per mile

The thing about air travel is that a lot of people can travel a long way in a short period of time so the fuel used per journey is significant even though the fuel used per passenger per mile looks good.

So, lets pretend I was a tree hugging do-gooder.

If I wanted to drive with Mrs TB down to the south of France, along with my holiday buddy Abbo and his missus, who would use their own sports car made of wood...   ...would I be kinder to the environment by flying as opposed to driving a 14yr old 3.2l Omega?


Not that I care, as I would always take the car, as everything about dealing with British airports is nothing more than a tedious waste of time, as everything, from carparks, check-in, security, boarding, refreshments is run and staffed by first class morons.  Which puts me in a bloody bad mood long before you even have to deal with being squashed and cooped up on a poxy plane for hours, with the little "darlings" behind kicking your seat constantly - and any attempt to punch them is met with distain by the parents who can't control them - and the fat idiot in front trying to recline his seat as far as it will go, so he can put his head on your lap.

Yeah, bloody brilliant start to any holiday.

Exactly. 

I have a rough policy, If where I'm going is within 1,000km of Calais, then I drive. French budget hotels are good and cheap, break the journey and stop over. Plus, having the car mean you can load up with wine and other stuff 

I just hate the whole flying process, all designed to make life a misery and to part you from as much cash as possible.

[Bigron]

I couldn't agree more, Mr. Rog; airports (and especially their over-the-top security) get on my t*ts! We can shorten journey times by flying at speed, yet spoil it all by the length of time they make you hang around before they deign to let you on to the bl**dy thing!
The other annoyances have already been eloquently described by others, so I won't repeat them, but the whole business is such a pain in the arris.....

Ron.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Agreed.  I love a good road trip and airports are a PITA, especially the massive queues to get through immigration in some places. 

It's just that some destinations are a little tricky to drive to. 

Thailand for example. By the time you pitch up in Bangkok and have a cup of coffee, it's time to turn around and head for home! 

[Doctor Gollum]

OK Migmog, I concede that that is indeed a DC10... Winglets obviously didn't work as expected as Continental didn't bother fitting them to their later DC10 fleet

[TheBoy]

That's similar to looking at the safety figures - yes flying appears safer than driving but airlines quote it in terms of deaths per 100 mil miles however people don't live their lives in miles they live it in time eg hours, years. Planes travel about 20 faster than cars so if you spend an hour in a plane you cover 20 times the miles you would in a car. 

Not entirely sure what that has to do with the price of fish, but then I've always struggled with the logic of conspiracists.

So if we live in days/hours/minutes, are you suggesting 4hrs in a car (and forget mileage) is safer statistically than 4hrs in a plane?

I wonder want proportion of flyers were seriously injured or killed in a plane in 2016, compared to car users?

[TheBoy]

Avoid the Chunnel like the plague

Couldn't agree more. All Le Shuttle staff and management are on the cull list.  Its enough to put you off France, much like that shithole you end up in that we call Calais.

get a night ferry to France, a full English breakfast to get your early start off splendidly, drive the 700miles in circa 12 hours down to the south of France, have your car to visit wherever you want on the Med, and then cruise back home. If like I (6 times) and TB you have done it, then don't delay, get a life and exceptional holiday by doing so. The Camargue area takes a lot of beating.

Couldn't agree more.  And the whole of the French Med coast is lovely.  And if you can share the driving so you can get an hour or 2 sleep in, the South of France from the Midlands is doable in a (long) day.

[Doctor Gollum]

That's similar to looking at the safety figures - yes flying appears safer than driving but airlines quote it in terms of deaths per 100 mil miles however people don't live their lives in miles they live it in time eg hours, years. Planes travel about 20 faster than cars so if you spend an hour in a plane you cover 20 times the miles you would in a car. 

Not entirely sure what that has to do with the price of fish, but then I've always struggled with the logic of conspiracists.

So if we live in days/hours/minutes, are you suggesting 4hrs in a car (and forget mileage) is safer statistically than 4hrs in a plane?

I wonder want proportion of flyers were seriously injured or killed in a plane in 2016, compared to car users?

I suspect more people died in motorcycle rtcs in England than suffered serious or worse in aircraft incidents...