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[pscocoa]

And BT have just phoned back to say they are requesting action by BT Wholesale!!

[TheBoy]

So BT have now had the notes from Open Reach. They have interpreted Lift and Shift to mean that we moved our equipment in our building and tried to refer me to sales !! Er no - the OR engineer has given me the LLU reference Pair 62 to be moved in the exchange...(BT) oh well we have it recorded on this system and the job  will have to be opened on another system. We will ring you back....

You couldn't make it up. This is what happens when telephonists customer service representatives work from an on screen script.

Not helped by the fact Openreach cannot (Ofcom, bless them) share their IT systems with Service Providers, BT included.

So there will always be multiple, separate systems involved.

[TheBoy]

And BT have just phoned back to say they are requesting action by BT Wholesale!!

To do the exchange work then. Great, isn't it?

Another reason why all civil servants need lining up and shooting.

 

[VXL V6]

So BT have now had the notes from Open Reach. They have interpreted Lift and Shift to mean that we moved our equipment in our building and tried to refer me to sales !! Er no - the OR engineer has given me the LLU reference Pair 62 to be moved in the exchange...(BT) oh well we have it recorded on this system and the job  will have to be opened on another system. We will ring you back....

That's exactly what a Lift and Shift is in BTOR terms, relocation of the NTE on the customer premise.

[Marks DTM Calib]

So BT have now had the notes from Open Reach. They have interpreted Lift and Shift to mean that we moved our equipment in our building and tried to refer me to sales !! Er no - the OR engineer has given me the LLU reference Pair 62 to be moved in the exchange...(BT) oh well we have it recorded on this system and the job  will have to be opened on another system. We will ring you back....

If they were real engineers they would have sorted it but, there not, there techs at best and more than likely fitters.....

[pscocoa]

BT phoned me first thing to say engineers had been booked to do a lift and shift "at the exchange" tomorrow morning and that they will contact me in the afternoon to report. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for all your comments on this but you can imagine all the customers being fobbed off with reasons for low speed. They may of course come back and say it is now as fast as it can be at 5meg!!

[TheBoy]

They may of course come back and say it is now as fast as it can be at 5meg!!

I suspect the man from Readingham would be utterly delighted with such a dizzy speed

[pscocoa]

They may of course come back and say it is now as fast as it can be at 5meg!!

I suspect the man from Readingham would be utterly delighted with such a dizzy speed

Yes but it would be too fast for him to handle.

[Viral_Jim]

I may be over-simplifying things, however I've never seen the relevance of Open Reach to the end user.

I have a contract with BT, to supply me with phone, broadband etc etc. I don't give a stuff who BT engage to do the physical connectivity stuff as I have no contractual relationship with them. Other than giving them access to our property I have nothing to do with them.

So, if BT isn't providing the paid for service they should be compensating the end user and then going after Open Reach themselves if they are to blame. Trying to drag the customer into the middle of it is just another way to transfer responsibility and make the end user do their leg work. I mean, let's face it, if its not their lines, or their tech, and they're passing the leg work on to the customer, what are they actually for?

I took this approach when we moved into our house and our installation went tits up. I just started totting up the cost for lost time, inconvenience etc etc and funnily enough, I got through to someone on the phone with whom I shared a common language (English) and things were sorted pretty quickly.

Putting the customer in the middle is just smoke and mirrors on BT's part. 

[Kevin Wood]

Thanks for all your comments on this but you can imagine all the customers being fobbed off with reasons for low speed. They may of course come back and say it is now as fast as it can be at 5meg that, if you attached a morse key to it and started tapping away you'd have communication, so it's fine.!!

FTFY

[TheBoy]

jimmy944 - that's exactly the way it should be. And in fact the way it is.  My Internet doesn't work, I shout at Zen Internet, not their supplier (Openreach).  Zen then do some (decent) sanity checks and diagnostics, and if believed to be a line fault, send it to Openreach (or BT Wholesale is it needs exchange work).

I pay Zen a lot more money than most people pay BT for an FTTC connection, partly due to some specific needs, partly due to the better support:

I have 2 lines in here, both now FTTC. One is via Zen (the one OOF runs on), on is BT Business (not really the same as "BT" that most of us use).  A few years back, they were both 512k RA-ADSL, and both suffered an appalling error rate (thousands of CRC errors a minute). I knew what the problem was, and how to fix it, but needed BT (pre Openreach) to do it.  Call Zen, explain, did the usual sanity checks with master socket and filters, they could see the errors being reported on the line, and got it raised with BT in less than 15 mins.  Then call BT about the BT Business line, took about 2hrs of jumping through their hoops, it was clear their call centre staff weren't that technical.  Once the BT engineers turned up (on seperate days, grrr), I told them what they needed to do (change e side to one that wasn't via a link cable to another cabinet, cutting the line length from 7km to 3km ), and job jobbed

Another occasion I have trouble with a Zen line (at bro's business), we'd done a lot of network kit swapouts and reconfiguration, but weren't getting internet connectivity for long enough to do anything useful.  Call up Zen, usual sanity checks, then they start to diagnose it, and come back (within 10-15mins) saying that our router is responding oddly to the radius authentication packets - turns out a router that we'd previous used purely for LAN routing had a hardware fault on its ADSL interface, and we'd muddled up the routers when we'd reapplied the configs following the changes.  Can't see many other ISPs being able to help diagnose that one, beyond "must be your equipment sir".  OK, maybe Andrews and Arnold.


The OPs issue is he's got between OR and BT, and had become stuck in the middle, failing to realise they are NOT the same company, and the enforced seperations between them.  He should be grumbling at BT, not OR or BTW.  His only contact, other than providing access, should be with BT.

[TheBoy]

Thanks for all your comments on this but you can imagine all the customers being fobbed off with reasons for low speed. They may of course come back and say it is now as fast as it can be at 5meg that, if you attached a morse key to it and started tapping away you'd have communication, so it's fine.!!

FTFY

I'm far to rusty now to even pick up slow morse, but when I used to sit in a van all day with a collegue who was learning it via cassettes that were in the vans, I got reasonably good at it, at the speeds needed to pass the exam for the amateur radio licence.  Wish I'd done the exam now, not that I'd realistically use it, but with morse being the hardest bit IMHO....

Even now, occasionally I'll hear something rattling somewhere, and subconsciously decode letters, even though the whole thing is gibberish. Sad bastid, I know 

[VXL V6]

........Once the BT engineers turned up (on seperate days, grrr), I told them what they needed to do (change e side to one that wasn't via a link cable to another cabinet, cutting the line length from 7km to 3km ), and job jobbed ........

The beauty here being a) your local knowledge, b) your BT technical knowledge and c) the willingness and understanding of your BTOR engineer.

We have a lot of dealings with BT, Wholesale, Workplace, Enterprise, Newsites, Openreach etc etc, our largest percentage of timewasting is down to Kelly and MV Quinn subcontractors and there inability to do anything more than punch down a bit of 1308 on the DP and run it no more than 2m from it, Heaven forbid they tag the line... sometimes your lucky if they do anything more than leave a loop in the DP. I've always found the proper BTOR engineers to be far better (as you'd expect really), you can discuss the D-Side and E-Side with them and once they realise you do have an understanding they are very helpful, even leaving interstitial plates on PSTN installs when they know it will have FTTC overlaid.

[Viral_Jim]

jimmy944 - that's exactly the way it should be. And in fact the way it is.  My Internet doesn't work, I shout at Zen Internet, not their supplier (Openreach). 

That's a relief, I know I am a grumpy curmudgeonly young git. But I'm glad I'm not wide of the mark. 

Tbh, with many companies I find that I have no choice but to "escalate my complaint" at the first opportunity just so that I speak to someone who I understand and who understands me.

Oh and lest anyone think I'm being racist, I firmly include in this category all the bloody Glaswegians that Natwest/RBS employ. 

[STEMO]

jimmy944 - that's exactly the way it should be. And in fact the way it is.  My Internet doesn't work, I shout at Zen Internet, not their supplier (Openreach). 

That's a relief, I know I am a grumpy curmudgeonly young git. But I'm glad I'm not wide of the mark. 

Tbh, with many companies I find that I have no choice but to "escalate my complaint" at the first opportunity just so that I speak to someone who I understand and who understands me.

Oh and lest anyone think I'm being racist, I firmly include in this category all the bloody Glaswegians that Natwest/RBS employ. 

The Scottish are a race, so you're racist. So am I.